Author Topic: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok  (Read 5025 times)

Gazoo

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cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« on: September 21, 2017, 22:13:53 »
Hello I have been having trouble with my 1969 280 sl ,I can drive it behind 3000rpm pretty good but when i try to go over 3000rpm it sound lack of gas ,also when the temperature goes over 85 Celsius it also starts to fail and and shake ,some times smells gasoline when is at this temperature.
I have changed the electric pump and the problem still,i have checked the 6 injectors and are clean and no rusted but I have checked the spark plugs and find that Spark Number 1 (wich i define the one located at the front of the car )is very poor and the other 5 are normal.
 I tried to fix it turning one turn to the screw in the mechanic pump to give more gas but have no succes.
What can I do? is the mechanic pump bad?
Any idea will be apreciated
Sincerely
APV

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Gazoo

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 23:31:35 »
Thank you

Gazoo

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2017, 23:37:39 »
The sparks are new, it seems that the pump is not delivering enough fuel to cylinder number one
Could the mechanical pump fail to deliver only in one cylinder?

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 00:02:16 »
Gazoo,

You do have 2 fuel pump as you know, one near the gas tank and another under the hood. I have a feeling since you are having issues not going higher then 3,000 rpm that your fuel pump near the gas tank may have a problem. This pump may have lost a vane (blade) and when you get to near 3000 rpm will not deliver enough fuel to the fuel injection pump under the hood thus not giveing you the needed power to go further then 3,000 rpm. I would check the fuel pump and fuel lines near the tank next.

Anyone else have any thoughts or had similar issues ?

Good luck Gazoo,

Dieter

PS. My engine exhibited similar issues you described early in the spring after only a few short stars and runs last winter (except for the spark plugs), rough running etc. I filled up with super fuel and gave her a good highway run (Italian tune up) and after that she started to behave herself again :)
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

Gazoo

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 14:41:11 »
Thank you Dieter
I will try to measure again the pressure on the electric pump ,but this problem existed with the old pump and I buoght a refurbished one and the pump delivered the pressure on the lab and on the car.
The extrange thing is tha only cylinder No1 is poor of gas.
Any other idea?
Gazoo

smackYYZ

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 14:58:25 »
Gazoo,

Have you checked the fuel delivery from the fuel injector pump? Sounds that this is where the issue would be, since the other 5 are fine.

Mike

BaronYoungman

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 15:27:36 »
the fuel injector pump (attached to the engine) has little pistons (one for each cylinder) in it and one piston could be stuck or the cam worn out or , highly unlikely, the injector for that cylinder clogged.
Just my 2 cents
Bob "Baron" Youngman
1971 280 SL silver  1 car 0 boxes
1983 500sec Wheeler Dealer AMG w AMG coupe
1965 220se coupe restomod
1988 560sec  Japan "Yakuza Car"

ja17

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 15:55:54 »
Check to see if the injector on#1 is squirting. Start by first loosening the line at the injector. If fuel emerges during cranking, then the piston in the pump is moving. Next you need to see if enough pressure is developed to open #1 injector. You can switch #1 injector with another to see if the problem moves also. If it does, then the problem is the injector. #6 cylinder (rear) of your injection pump provides fuel to the #1 cylinder of your engine. The 19mm fittings (under the 17mm injection line fittings) must be torqued to 18 lbs. or pressure in the injection line will not develop.  ( do not over-torque) . Possibly the 19mm fitting at #6 on your pump is loose? Torque it to 19lbs.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
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1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
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Raymond

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 16:21:23 »
Are you sure it isn't a single bad injector?  If the #1 cylinder is the only one starved for fuel, check the injector on that cylinder.  There are 2 approaches.  First, with the engine running, loosen the nut on the line to the #1 injector and see if the idle changes.  If not, the injector is not firing properly.  Fuel will spray out so be prepared for that.  If fuel does not spray out, the injection pump may be the problem.  If that is not conclusive, swap the #1 injector with the #2 injector and see if the problem follows.  If it does, you know the injector is either bad or clogged.  You might also just take all of the injectors to someone who can clean them.  If you need a new one, Rock Auto sells them in the US for just under $100. 
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe

Gazoo

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 15:43:35 »
Thank you
I will check the pump

Gazoo

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 15:50:55 »
When I loose the screw on injector #1 there is less pressure and leaks less gas than when I do the same on all the others injectors
I wiil exchange  injectors from #1 to other # but  I just clean all of them and # 1 look the same shape as the others
Thank you

rgafitanu@gmail.com

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 13:46:01 »
They will all look the same. Only when you pressure test them you will see the difference.

Pawel66

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Re: cylinder number 1 spark plug poor all others ok
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 14:50:16 »
Gazoo,

Look at what I went through: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=26124.0

May look similar to your situation. It is about verifying if IP delivers the same amount of fuel to all cylinders. Does not matter how much fuel, what was important was the amount in given cylinder vs. the others.

It is easier than it seems to determine that.

Starting from the end to the beginning.

Injector: if you have a new one, you may replace it and see. If you do not have a new one, swap it with another one and see if the effect follows the injector. While doing this, you may determine wich cylinder is weaker by pulling ignition leads from plugs.

If the issue is not the injector, which was my case, I measured amount of fuel delivered by fuel lines of the suspected cylinder vs. other fuel lines. You just unhook the fuel line from injector, you may take a small syringe, plug the needle hole,  crank the engine a bit so that fuel appears at the end of the fuel line, put the fuel line into the syringe, run engine or crank engine for, say 30 seconds, measure amount of fuel. I got 20-30% difference between suspected cylinder and other cylinders. A lot.

Then my suspect was the fuel line - they may get clogged. I had a short piece of fuel line with one connector. I connected it to the IP. Again, cranked engine, saw fuel at the end of the short line, put it in the syringe, ran engine for 30 seconds, measured how much fuel i got. It was the same amount as at the injector end of the "usual" line. So line was not clogged.

You have to remember that the cylinders on the IP are numbered vice versa to cylinders numbering in the engine.

My next step (some say unnecessary) was to check the check valves - by swapping two of them around. I got the same effect.

When you have check valves out  you can check on piston movements. My pistons were moving ok. If your piston of the suspected cylinder is not moving, there is achance you can make it move.

At this point it was clear - the IP was not properly calibrated between cylinders.

The two items you need to have to look at pistons and check valves (if you choose to) are the check valve puller and the check valve seals. The seals are not easy to find (I found them on amazon).

You may decide to send your IP for calibration already when you confirm it is not delivering the same amount of fuel through all sections. But the temptation is to see if the pistons are moving because there is a chance you can make them move yourself if they do not. If the check valve is bad - you could replace it yourself too, which also is tempting (but more experienced members are saying that the check valves usually do not go bad).

You will find all the info you need on the forum - tools, procedures, etc.

Another point here: if you get to the point when you decide to remove your IP - please check if it was timed correctly. If the timing is reversed 180 degree the engine will run, but unevenly and may be distributing fuel to cylinders in the wrong moment. Do it as the first thing as you get the IP out - are all the marks aligned properly? Info on timing is also present on the forum or in tech manual.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
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