Author Topic: Vickers Power Steering Pump  (Read 3139 times)

Pawel66

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Vickers Power Steering Pump
« on: August 05, 2018, 21:46:39 »
Was that Vickers?

Do you have the drawing of the inscriptions on the oil reservoir somewhere in the drawer?  ;)
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

MikeSimon

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 23:16:26 »
Was that Vickers?

Do you have the drawing of the inscriptions on the oil reservoir somewhere in the drawer?  ;)

Don't know what exactly you are talking about. A sticker? An engraved script on the lid?
In any case, I am not sure if Vickers did make the reservoir as it was not directly attached to the pump. I will have to check my records.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

66andBlue

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 00:07:50 »
I have a Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering from Darmstadt, Germany university. I used to work for the company who manufactured the power steering pump for the W113, actually for most Mercedes cars since they used p/s in 1962. Transferred to the U.S. in 1988. Brought my 280SL with me. Retired from the industry since 2014. Working with 2 partners selling/buying/brokering vintage and collector cars and motorcycles.
Hi Mike,
did you work at the Bad Homburg plant? Some time back we had an interesting discussion about the pump having SAE threads:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=12850.0
and I was wondering whether you have insight how MB ended up using a Vickers PS pump in their cars.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

MikeSimon

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 01:25:26 »
 ;D ;D How much time do you have??
Yes, I worked in Bad Homburg.
Here is an abridged history:

Harry Vickers in California invented the "balanced vane pump" in 1925
The first industrial application was found as a power steering pump and was used on a 1929 Oldsmobile.
Harry moved to Detroit and founded Vickers Inc
In 1938 (? maybe) Vickers was taken over by the Sperry Corporation and became known as Sperry Vickers.
After WWII, Vickers expanded the manufacture of p/s pumps and became the major supplier of hydraulic power steering pumps to all U.S. car manufacturers.
In the late 50s, GM tried to persuade Vickers to invest on a greater scale in order to supply the growing demand of pumps as the p/s option took off.
Vickers was very concerned about GM's treatment of suppliers as in 57/58 they had convinced Timken to build new plants to supply all of their wheel bearing requirements and then turned around and bought New Departure Hyatt and made the bearings in house. This almost caused Timken to go under.
Vickers refused to expand and licensed GM to build the pump. They did at their Saginaw Steering Gear divsion in Saginaw, MI. In the 80s you could visit Saginaw Steering and you would see in the museum the first pump they ever made was a Vickers design pump.
In the following years, GM played the usual "strong arm" game when all production fluctuations were taken out on the Vickers share.
As a result, Vickers , who by that time was a full-line industrial pump manufacturer, decided to get out of automotive in the late 50s/early 60s.
In 1962, Daimler Benz decided to introduce power steering as an option on their passenger car lines and turned to Vickers to supply the pump.
At that time, Vickers had a plant in Bad Homburg, close to Frankfurt, where they manufactured and serviced hydraulic equipment for industrial equipment for GM's Opel plant in nearby Russelsheim. This plant was the defunct "Horex" motorcycle plant which Vickers had acquired in 1958.
Vickers agreed to supply DB, but restricting themselves to this being the only automotive supplier. The first year, the pumps came from the U.S. until production started in 1963. (I was still in bad Homburg, when we celebrated the supply of the 1 millionth pump to DB.)
When p/s became standard on many vehicles, DB required a second source and demanded Vickers to share the design with ZF. In the beginning, ZF bought the vane type rotating group from Saginaw ::)
As a result of losing some of the business, Vickers local management in Bad Homburg decided to turn to other German OEMs and as engineering was in Germany, they were able to design pumps for BMW and later Porsche. (The infamous 959 had a Vickers pump)
There is much more to say, but it would make for a nice book, which I may decide to write one of these days....
But you see, this explains your original question why the pumps had SAE threads....

As mentioned in the thread you link to, the U.K. "Vickers" company is different from Vickers Inc in the U.S.
Vickers in the U.S. was divested by Sperry in 1984 and merged into LOF - Libbey Owens Ford. When LOF sold theur glass division to Pilkington Plc, the name went with them and the remaining companies Vickers, Aeroquip and Sterling Engineered Products (Plastics) renamed themselves "Trinova".The Vickers Automotive portion with main assets being the plant in Bad Homburg was sold in 1991 to German automotive supplier LuK (mainly clutches back then). In 2006, Luk Automotive Hydraulics was sold to Private Equity and renamed "ixetic"
In 2012 "ixetic" was purchased by Magna International and the hydraulic engineering and expertise around power steering in Bad Homburg was dismantled.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:35:47 by MikeSimon »
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

66andBlue

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 03:23:56 »
Thank you Mike! That is very fascinating for a history buff like me.
Also because I had picked up once some parts at the Vickers plant in Bad Homburg for the largest private MB dealer in Frankfurt (Hermani); they needed them in a hurry for a Very Important customer. Paid my fuel expense for two weeks!
I'll put Jonny B on your tail to write something up in more detail for our Pagoda World magazine. That should give you ample experience for the nice book you are planning to write.  ;D
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

mbzse

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 09:16:03 »
Quote from: MikeSimon
;D How much time do you have?? Yes, I worked in Bad Homburg. Here is an abridged history:
Great tale, Mike  :)
So interesting with this kind of initiated info, especially when it is tied to our favourite car!
/Hans S

Pawel66

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 09:57:01 »
Don't know what exactly you are talking about. A sticker? An engraved script on the lid?
In any case, I am not sure if Vickers did make the reservoir as it was not directly attached to the pump. I will have to check my records.

I saw on pictures in workshop books: markings either on the side of the reservoir or on the lid. Sometimes  they had Vickers logo with some numbers, sometimes just number. I do not know if they were engraved or if there was a sticker of some sort. So I was wondering - were these markings present on PS reservoirs in our cars.

Maybe not worth a time...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

mbzse

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 10:57:03 »
Quote from: Pawel66
.../...markings either on the side of the reservoir or on the lid.../...were these markings present on PS reservoirs in our cars?
No, not on our W113 Pagoda cars. Satin black only.
On W109's and W111/112 yes. Yellow lettering either on the lid or on the fluid reservoir housing (depending on engine type).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 12:19:20 by mbzse »
/Hans S

Pawel66

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 11:15:50 »
Thank you! That takes care of it!
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

MikeSimon

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 11:54:57 »
Vickers made pumps with and without reservoir attached to the unit. The W113 pump is based on a model called VTM42 which in some versions had a tank mounted directly to the pump. If this was used on other DB cars, I don't know. I joined Vickers in 1987, just after they changed from the vastly popular VT49 pump to a modular line (VT65 for DB). BTW: Vickers was the first manufacturer making a p/s pump with an aluminum housing.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Garry

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Re: Vickers Power Steering Pump
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 21:01:34 »
Guys,


I think the thread has got off track a bit!!!


This info is great but on this thread will make it difficult to search if sought later. Maybe it needs to be moved to the correct topic area.

Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
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