Car Wash

[Ed Cave]

Maybe our resident car wash / detail experts (Bob & Michael) will take exception to this but when I read the following description for a German Car Wash Shampoo, P21S, I was well, speechless. I mean, I want to use quality products on my cars as much as the next guy but prior to reading this, I had never really considered exactly which vitamins would keep my cars body properly hydrated. [:0]


P21S Bodywork Conditioning Shampoo contains wheat germ, a super food that is rich in Vitamin B Complex and Vitamin E. This, plus carefully selected sugar-based ingredients provide a nourishing conditioning treatment, as well as a gentle cleansing shampoo, for your car. Here are the features of P21S Bodywork Conditioning Shampoo:

Natural Ingredients: Vitamins are essential in quality lotions, shampoos, and conditioners for our skin and hair, so why not our vehicles? Wheat germ provides gentle and effective nourishment with vitamins and oils that will keep your car looking lustrous and clean. This fine blend of wheat germ and other superb ingredients makes P21S Bodywork Conditioning Shampoo the ultimate all-in-one shampoo for car detailing.

Oils Stay Put. Often, frequent car washing can draw away oils that are necessary to keep your car looking brilliant and hydrated. This conditioning shampoo will replenish oils that were lost, while also cleaning your vehicle in the gentlest way possible. The end result will be a healthy, pristine look.

To substantiate this, here is the link where I lifted that text...
http://www.autogeek.net/p2bodconsham.html

What car wash do you use? And to give this posting some legitimacy, what product brands do the experts prefer?

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA

1964 356C
1971 280SL
2002 SC430
2004 A4 3.0

[mdsalemi]

Ed and anyone else listening:

I read this and all I can say is that is the biggest bunch of hooey I've ever heard.  But don't take my word for it.  I am good friends with a chemist at Warsaw (Indiana, not Poland) Chemical which is one of the nation's leading car wash chemical suppliers.  I'll pass this on to him and see what he says.  I'll ask him to be frank.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Cees Klumper]

After my new paint job now over 3 years ago I had a coating put on ("ProTech"). Since then, all I've had to do is wash it with some of the manufacturer's shampoo and warm water a few times a year (no waxing or polishing), and it looks brand new today.

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Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[hauser]

Ed, check out what the Zymol guys are offering.  www.zymol.com

I have only used Meguiars products and can't really vouch for anything else.  Seems to work pretty good for me.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[Ed Cave]

I was really hoping to stir up some conversation about various automotive cleaning/detailing products. There are a vast number of manufacturers, each with an array of offerings in their product lines.

Which do you like? Which should you stay away from? Which particular products do you find very useful? Which are a waste of time and money? Answers can be generic or product specific.

If you use any of these and care to comment, here is your chance. Some manufacturers of auto cleaning/detail products include Klasse, Blackfire, Meguiar's, Pinnacle, Lexol, Wurth, Wolfgang, Mother's, Menzerna, 303, Eimann and Eagle One. I'm sure there are more, but thats a good list to get us started.

Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA

1964 356C
1971 280SL
2002 SC430
2004 A4 3.0

[Kenneth Gear]

I have had good results with Griot's Garage products.  I use their car wash and Best of Show Wax with very good results.  

I think they are a bit more expensive than some others on the market but the results are good and their customer service is outstanding.

www.griotsgarage.com


Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red

[Bob G ✝︎]

My take is that petroleum solvent in many of the products excell the drying out of the paints binder systems. The binder is what holds the paint in suspension and keeps it together after the solvents used to spray it have been released and the paint dries.
Harsh solvents like thoses found in a can of paint thinner can abruptly change the chemestry of paint.
Though I used paint cleaners and polishes to restore oxidized and abused paint jobs for my clients, it is important to know that not all products are recommended for the same kind of paint, Single stage and base coat clear  coat paint differ by their nature.
I have all ways recommended to stay away from dish washing detergents to wash your car. As they are designed to remove grease they do little in the way of not attacking the wax and the paint's binder system.
While there are many good quality products out there to handle paint care I recommend buying from astablished companies instead of back yard soup producers. If you want information on the product ask the manufacture for an MSD Material Safety data sheet . though it will notgive you the formula it will disclose any bad chemicals that could hold a risk to your health and your cars paint. Folllow the manufactors recommended instructions on the bottle and always work in a clean inviroment with clean applicators to each products and plenty of soft cotton towels or micro fiber towels.
If any of you would like some recommendations feel free to e-mail me at bobgeco@cs.com or call 310-839-8337.

[Douglas]

Like Ken, I use Griot's soap. I actually prefer zymol's soap ("Clear"), but it's just way too pricey.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[ChrisInNashville]

Ed,   I had P21S for breakfast; it also provides essential emulsifiers to aid digestion   .   Kinda reminds me of the Frazier episode where everyone sat around eating Frazier's apricot facial scrub.

After trying many less notable products, I've been extremely pleased with the Meguire's three step process.   Prior to this, I inadvertently stripped wax after my first wash (using the wrong chamois) and went into a 'panic' at the milky white film on the finish...

Although I rate my paint job a 2, Meguire's has definitely optimized its beauty.   Here it is:   www.christietz.com

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by christietz

After trying many less notable products, I've been extremely pleased with the Meguire's three step process.

Me too.  I use it on my car which does not have a clear coat layer.  I had severe oxidation and two consecutive passes with each step (cleaner, polish, wax) made a huge improvement.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Bob G ✝︎]

On another note discussing automobile paint care. Many owners never open the owners manual, this may be in fear that they may learn something or that a warning may appear , I say both. Education is the key factor in automobile care.
The days of the three stouges are no more. today unless you own a classic car from the days of the by goen eara and have single stage enamel paint or laquer on it. the products have changed even the famous Meguires #7 show car glaze is much drier and not as oily as it used to be.
The reason for this is what is called low solvent high density paints have become the new source of the automobile manufactures. Old type high solvent paints that keep on gasing off are no longer used. these paints had so much solvent in them they needed emense glazes to feed the binder to keep it from drying out.
Todays paint systems the best in the industry are base coat /clear coat technology. What you are polishing is the clear unpigmented coat of clear paint designed to protect the basecoat from the UV exposure of the sun and elements out side your control.
Different products are needed to protect , polish and maintain this new paint system.
Never Ever!!!!! reach for the most agressive compound to remove a mark on your Mercedes-Benz paint always use the lease aggressive paint cleaner or mild polish first. To remove industrial and enviromental fallout from the surface of the paint hood, roof trunk and rear sholders of the quarter panels use detailers clay after hand washing the automobile. Clay is vantastic if used correctly and will remove with out scratching the surface of the paint fall out that compound would only force further into the paint while removing fresh clearcoat.
Here are some basic things to have at hand.beside clay to be purchased for the Mercedes-Benz owner. "
1) a mild clear coat paint clearner mild not agressive like a compound it will break down in deminishing partical that become like a fine polish .
2) a pure paint polish no cleaners some are called glazes they are fillers that give the paint a wet look.
3) a pure carnauba paste wax oil base or water base .
4) a good supply of micro fiber towels for use on paint, glass chrome and interior.
5) a good mild chrome polish
6) a good synthic chamie firemans friend will notstripe the wax of the car.
7) I forgot a good automobile Carwash solution for automoble paint leave your wife's dishwashing soap alone and were it belongs.
of corse it should be number ONE Clay magic blue bar and clay lubricant .
If you have a paint questions and seek further help and guidence you can bend my ear not my Mercedes! at bobgeco@cs.com
Happy motoring
Bob Geco

[mdsalemi]

I promised you I'd contact Jeff Rufner, senior chemist at Warsaw Chemical (suppliers to the car wash industry) and see what he had to say about that glorious statment regarding P21S.  Verbatim, here's what he said:

Michael,
Interesting.
I came from the background of a cosmetic chemist, doing hand soaps and surgical scrubs and trying to find ingredients that actually keep the skin hydrated so as not to dry out when using harsh active ingredients to kill the germs on hands.  Wheat germ, and especially the Vitamin E component, were excellent for this task.
As cars have pores, just as skin does, and oil does protect the surface of skin from drying out, there could be something to this, but as paint does not have a water component as skin does, I would be hesitant to buy into it totally.  The oils from the vitamins would protect the surface of the car from oxidation as long as they were present, but one would have to assume that even as their description of the product calls for repeated washings to achieve this effect, I would call into question how much oil is actually in the product.  Vitamin E, being an antioxidant, would also retard the effect of the sun on the painted surface, but if the product contains less than 5% of the wheat germ oil, I would have to say that the effect is overstated.
In my humble (maybe not so expert in this case) opinion, had no doubt the product exists, just not sure I would not rather use it on my hair!

Jeff

My guess is if you buy the stuff, and you don't like it on your car, take the bottle and put it in your guest bathroom!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Bob G ✝︎]

As Michael's friend stated alot of this is smoke and mirrors. A general education in paint history will tell you that the make up of paint has changed more in the last 10 years then in the last 100 years.The old thermo plastic paints laquer and acrylic enamels have been replace with new thermo set paints that are much more superior in durabiltiy. The old paint systems had a very porous skin and gased out alot that is why lacqure need so much attention to keep it in a silitafied form other wise it dries out from lack of oils. Also lacquer is a natural paint first used in the Orient in the early 1800's for furiture . Its gum resin comes from a tree. Enamal is a man made paint but also dependent on the binder andsolvents put into it to spay it on to a surface.
In the 1970's the  introduction ofBase coat clear coat for production automobiles was VW idea and later copied by all most every other manufacture today.
because of the emissions that these factories put out called VOCs Volital Organic coating gasing off into the atmisphere the way paints are now used by big manufactures are different. High Solit paints with little solvent are the base with water base primers and base coat paint systems followed by High solids or powder coat clears have replaced the old thermo plastic paint systems.
One last note : If you use a power buffer or rotory polisher it is recommended to stay below 3000 RPM to polish these paints. The reason for this sited by a study from SAE Society of automotive engineers is that in removing a scratch with a cleaner heat trasferr can force the scratch further into the body of the paint and clowd milky the clear coat. The old thermo plasic paint could be reflowed withalittle heat to get rid of a scratch not any more.
BE wise and read the owners manual there is alot to be learned.
Bob Geco