Are Niemoller Stainless Exhaust Mandrel Bent? (I just found out, yes they are)

[JohnnyC]

Hi Fellow Pagoda Owners, Does anyone here know if the Niemoller stainless steel exhaust systems are mandrel bent? 

Cheers and Thank you,
JohnnyC.

[doitwright]

Why would you consider ordering an exhaust from Niemoller when you can get one from TimeValve in the US?

[JohnnyC]

Hi Frank, TimeValve uses the crush method of forming the bends, which restricts the flow and creates more heat at the bend. Mandrel bent has a consistent diameter of the tube throughout the bend.  Thank you for your reply.

Cheers,
JohnnyC

[wwheeler]

I wonder if the difference between the two methods creates a noticeable difference? I wouldn’t think unless you have a formula one car. But I have been shocked at how fast and less expensive it can be shipping into the US. I would be curious to know the difference in cost between the two?

Have you tried emailing Niemoller?

[JohnnyC]

Hi Wallace, I emailed Niemoller yesterday, I’ll post their reply.  Thank you for your reply.

Cheers and God Bless,
JohnnyC

[Shvegel]

I would expect that Neimoller buys from Timevalve.  such a small market it wouldn't make much sense to set up for a few units. 

[mdsalemi]

I wonder if the difference between the two methods creates a noticeable difference? I wouldn’t think...

My thoughts exactly, Wallace. I've had a TimeValve for nearly 20 years, and I expect it to last the life of the car. Oh, I suppose when the car is running at 4000 RPM on the highway, and if you were to take a temperature reading of any of the bends in the SS piping, maybe it will read higher, but you know what? Who cares? It doesn't matter. Really.

I've never heard any mechanic say, "Oh, I discovered your problem. You don't have mandrel bent exhaust pipes..."

The REAL question would be, for purists, is if the OEM system is mandrel bent, and if its still made the same way today as it was 50 years ago...

[JohnnyC]

Thank you  Michael.  Those are my thoughts too.  Not that I have the have mandrel bent pipes, nor am I an aggressive driver seeking high RPMs and top performance from such a wonderful classic ride, but I would prefer the mandrel dent instead of a crushed/kinked bends. I have spoken to TimeValve and that is another option I have considered. Just checking different vendors.

Cheers and Thank you,
JohnnyC.

[wwheeler]

I would think if a purist was that particular about the bends, they wouldn't want the stainless anyway. There are numerous other deviances from the OEM system that are more noticeable on the stainless system. On mine, I did weld the joints and went so far to ceramic coat the system with satin black to make it look more original. But in the end, it won't rot from the inside out and I will never worry about that again.

[JohnnyC]

Thank you for your reply Wallace.  I'm just looking for a clean, well refurbished, driving Pagoda.    What exhaust manufacturer do you have installed on your car?

Thank you, Cheers and God Bless,
JohnnyC.

[zoegrlh]

I put on OEM system about 6 or 7 yers ago.  Wanted the exhaust to sound as original as possible.  Had the joints wielded.  Looked like the bends were mandrel.  Thought about SS, knowing I would never have to purchase an exhaust ever again.  But you know what I still won't have to buy one again, car is garaged, does not get much water on it or under it, and the exhaust of 7 years still looks like when I installed.  I will say the SS looks great under the car.  A bit of shiny under the carrage.

[Pawel66]

I think the worst enemy is water that is inside the mufflers.

I also have OEM exhaust. Also for the sound of it. I read on the Forum: better check if the sound of stainless is ok for you because it is different.

I keep chasing Daimler for the front pipe for 280SL, by the way.  I will not let it go.

[Shvegel]

what I keep coming back to is it is 170 horsepower breathing through 2 pipes.  I am sure each pipe can handle the 85 horses.

[wwheeler]

Johnny,

Like many, I have a Time valve. Mine is a W111, but the system is similar. I am very happy with it. The one thing I wish it had is the cross over piece in front of the first muffler. Not sure why they don't put that on. Yes, the sound is a bit different, but I hardly notice and I cannot even remember what the old one sounded like. Everybody has their own strong likes and dislikes and I am fine with that. I personally just don't care that much about the sound being exactly the same. I would rather have the durability.

[stickandrudderman]

But you know what I still won't have to buy one again, car is garaged, does not get much water on it or under it, and the exhaust of 7 years still looks like when I installed. 

Cars that are only driven short distances do not  fully heat the exhaust along their entire length which causes hot exhaust gasses to condense in (typically) the rear muffler. It is this moisture that will cause the system to rust through from the inside.
One can often witness a car that pulls away from a standstill in the traffic in front of you discharging water, lots of it, from the exhaust.

[JohnnyC]

Thank you all for your reply's, much appreciated.  I yet to receive the SS System from Niemoller.  But through email messages to Niemoller, the tubes are mandrel bent.  Not that I have to have mandrel bent pipes, I just what I prefer if they are available.  Total cost is $1150 USD  w/shipping (from Germany to San Diego).

I hope others will get some knowledge from the thread as I have.

Thanks again for your input.
Cheers and God Bless,
JohnnyC

[GM]

I heard (urban legend?) that most of the moisture that causes the interior rusting of mufflers happens after the car is driven and parked, when the moisture in the air can enter the open tail pipes and condense inside. Solution? Supposedly, plugging the tailpipes immediately after driving.
Anybody else hear of this?

[wwheeler]

I think the majority of water in the system comes from when the engine is cold, not so much just sitting there. Since one end of exhaust system is basically closed at the head, you would have to push moist air into the tailpipe since there is no natural flow through.

The major issue is shutting off the engine before it is completely hot. That allows water to sit inside the exhaust causing rust. Also bad for the engine oil because there is water in that and needs to boil out. That can only happen when the engine hot.