looking for an sl

[n/a]

Hi, I'm new to the group and i want to thank everyone here as i have learned a tremendous amount of info about pagodas.  I will be in the market to get my first 280sl next year and i have been looking at some classic auto dealers in the nyc area.  has anyone heard of Gullwing Motorcars in long island city?  they have a number of pagodas for sale, usually around the $15k range and i was wondering how reputable they are.  thanks in advance

[Douglas]

Gullwing Motors is a classic bottom-feeder. They buy collector cars at rock-bottom prices that are frequently projects. It's a fun place to poke around because you can see everything from 300SLs to Aston-Martins, but almost everything is very rough.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[hitch02]

2 things I fail to remember when looking at classic cars:

1 - Buy the best one you can possibly afford - you WILL end up spending and/or losing the difference later.

2 - Dealers are in business to make a profit, and unless they are also restoring cars before selling, are looking at the same pool of cars that you are, though they may have better contacts and feelewrs out..  If you look hard enough, you will find the right car for you at a great price, and which would be marked-up *substantially* if the dealer got to it before you did.

Just my two cents.

-Reed

1969 280 SL Silver/Blue Tex (enroute)
1982 240D Midnight Blue/Parchment - 108K
ex- 1971 300SEL 6.3
ex- 1984 300DT
ex- 1994 E420
ex- 1990 300CE-24

[Cees Klumper]

Last week I bought a car from a private seller for I reckon about $8,000 less than it would have cost at any old dealer. When I bought my Pagoda 5 years ago I paid a big premium to buy from a dealer, who I found out in the end added nothing to the quality, only to the price.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Naj ✝︎]

Are you a member of the MBCA?

There is usually a good choice of private cars in their 'Star' Mag.

http://www.mbca.org

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[Douglas]

I think it can also be very smart to consider cars from many regions of the country as well as your immediate area. If you're willing to travel a bit, you may be rewarded for the extra effort. Certainly forums like this are helpful for casting a wider net. Lots of people here are happy to help a fellow enthusiast with his search, Scott.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[Benz Dr.]

Quit calling these cars CLASSIC - they're not!

 ( I'll start calling you guys ignorant......... )

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

[LFrank]

Uh-oh; there goes the good Doctor in his Duesenberg (but he's right).

Let's call them "enjoyable collectables"

LFrank
Washington DC
65 230 sl - auto
DB334/Hellblau

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Quit calling these cars CLASSIC - they're not!

 ( I'll start calling you guys ignorant......... )

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

Dictionary Definition:

classic (klas'ik) adj. 1.a. Belonging to the highest rank or class. b. Serving as the established model or standard. c. Having lasting significance or worth; enduring. 2.a. Adhering or conforming to established standards and principles. b. Of a well-known type; typical. 3. a. Formal, refined, and restrained in style. b. Simple and harmonious; elegant. 4. A typical or traditional example. 5. Informal. A superior or unusual example of its kind. 6. A traditional event, especially a major sporting event that is held annually.

Well, gents, I don't know about you, but any 113 I've seen seems to adhere to several parts of this definition!

Just because it is classic doesn't mean you can't enjoy it or drive it or collect it.

Jeez, Doc--the wheat fields get to you today??

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[TR]

Out here in 'tater-land I sport the official "Classic" license plate as issued by the state of Idaho.  If memory serves, that means at least 30 years old.

Mostly I just prefer the clean & simple look of the "classic" plate (four black numbers on a reflective-white background), that it cost less to register it, that the registration last for several years-not just 1 year, plus no more bothersome emissions tests ever again.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

[n/a]

thanks to everyone for the info.  next june cant get here soon enough as thats when my current lease is up.  hopefully some of the cars offered through this forum will still be for sale-if so, please let me know.
cheers,
scott

[Cees Klumper]

I know Dan feels strongly about this nomenclature. He's usually right about anything, and 99,9% right when he gets forceful, like now.
Nonetheless, I always keep referring to my car as a classic Mercedes, since that is what people who ask me about it but are not 'in the know' (I suppose 95% of people I meet) will understand ...

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[J. Huber]

Re: Classic ... I would submit that we have two distinct concepts going here: labels versus descriptions.

James
63 230SL

[Benz Dr.]

Thanks Mike.  Actually I just finished my wheat today with a bit more to do next week.
 
At the recent show in Michigan the MBCA joined up with Eyes on Design. I beleve that some of those cars were real classic cars from the 1930's.
You see, Clasic is defined as the '' eara '' in which the cars were built and then the dictionary definition that Mike used exemplifies all that these cars are. Unfortunatly, it's so rare to see these cars outside of shows like Meadowbrook or Pebble Beach that most people just don't know what they are or very much about them.
 I absolutely LOVE classic cars. They're works of art and we owe a huge debt of gratitude to the Classic Car Club of America for having the wisdom and insight back in 1952 to realise the historical importance of these great old cars and do something before they were lost forever.  
At least the K., S., S.S., S.S.K., S.S.K.L., Grosser and Manhiem are recognised as full classics. There was a 1931 370S Manhiem at the show in Michigan that belongs to a friend of mine. One only a few in private hands that still run and drive.

So, I suppose it's OK if people want to call they're cars XYZ. We want to promote the 113 car and to that end I think we do a good job - we are after all, owners, are we not? However, I believe that part of learning about your own car demands that you should learn about other cars ( that you like ) and also other clubs along with their historical importance.
The fact that all 113's are Milestone cars shouldn't be lost on the membership or this forum but I bet it is. Even I don't know much about the Milestone Car Club.
 
Our very name has historical importance.
W - wagon or car in German?
113 - the designation of the chassis number
Pagoda - the name given to the car for the hardtop
SL - sport light. Due to the use of aluminum panels.
Group - ( my idea that we use this in our name ) Traditional, goes back to the Gullwing Group and then the 190SL Group. A name that was used to cover all the coach built open cars. ( 107's couldn't use this name )

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org

[mdsalemi]

Thanks Dan!

Speaking of learning of other cars, I'm working the the Concours at Cranbrook and there are quite a few Classic Cars at this show that even Dan would agree with 100%.  I've written about them, researched them, and worked on their photos.  Those interested with nothing better to do can peruse these cars at:

http://www.concoursatcranbrook.com


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[France]

Hi Guys,

Well, if you think Classic is not the right designation, how about the "Florida Antique" plate I was issued for my Carling?  Antique at 37 years???   Man, that makes me a dinosaur.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by France

Hi Guys,

Well, if you think Classic is not the right designation, how about the "Florida Antique" plate I was issued for my Carling?  Antique at 37 years???   Man, that makes me a dinosaur.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France

...you mean you DON'T have carbide headlamps???

Well, some states have classic, some antique designations...in Michigan the requirement is minimum 25 years old.  The problem is that here, legally the plate is only good for "to and from car events" so taking a nice drive in the country could, in theory, get you into some kind of trouble.  Many "classic" car insurers put the same stipulations on, and/or an annual mileage limit.  These caveats bothered me so I've got regular Michigan plates, but Hagerty Insurance with no restrictions.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Benz Dr.]

Most places call their special plates for old cars '' historic '' which is probably the best designation of all. It says little about the car other than it qualifies for the plate that's on it. The fact that '57 Chevy's, your State, radio station, or even MB parts depots call themselves '' Classic '' doesn't mean beans. It's like calling facial tissues '' Kleenex '' when in fact that's just a brand name.

The word classic can be applied to many things that fit. In this case, concerning cars, it righfully belongs to those cars that really are and not stuff built 25 years ago. The last classic car was built almost 60 years ago - longer than most of us on this forum have been around.
Think of it this way: 60 years from now someone with a 30 year old car ( 2035 model year ) that has a concave roof line decides to start calling it a pagoda. Just as a quirk the car is also called a 113. So everyone starts calling them 113 pagodas. Everything cool is a pagoda or a 113 - it's the new ''rad, cool , hip, groovy '' word that everyone uses. Eventually everything retro is 113 or pagoda - the true meaning is lost as far as a 100 year old  MB car that you only see at car shows and galleries. We don't have a copy right to the name but maybe we should.
What we have here is our own history in a very neat format. Some day 50 years into the future someone will find this and either think that I was a nut or right on. Just like the early pioneers at the Classic Car Club of America we're preserving a piece of automotive history so that future generations will be able to see and enjoy these cars the way they were meant to be. Think of the people who take old vintage race cars out and flog them around the track and what a thrill it would be to see a 300SLR or a W196.
Lets give real classic cars their due for what they brought to the automotive world over 80 years ago. We can also bring something to the automotive world,  promoting our 113's as one of the finest open cars ever built during the 1960's and early 70's.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org