Author Topic: early vs. late 230SL  (Read 9410 times)

mdsalemi

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2020, 19:08:39 »
...design changes...only driven by US safety laws...

...Paul Bracq had left Mercedes Benz by the time the changes were made...

Many speak of US safety rules as if there is something WRONG with them. Eventually Europe and the rest of the world caught up with these rules, emissions and otherwise.
My uncle, the former owner of my [1969] 280SL, was nearly killed in his [1964] 230SL in a horrific crash--thank goodness for SOME safety design.
There's been talk on the forums often about "purity of design" and things such as removing the bumper overriders. Go price a new set of bumpers before you answer that question...
Having hit a deer once at 70MPH I'm sure glad I had a lot of "impure design" and lots of US safety features in my car. Thank goodness it wasn't the Pagoda. It would have been destroyed.
I'm very happy I have bumper overriders, proper and modern tail lamp colors, side markers instead of reflectors, retractable 3-point seat belts (done per MB specs) and anything else the MB engineers did on the Pagoda to make it a safer car. Pure of design or not.

Paul Bracq left MB in 1967 to work at Brissonneau and Lotz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brissonneau_and_Lotz  He didn't just work on trains, but also contract work for automotive which led to him being hired by BMW. Since a number of changes to the Pagoda series were in place by the 1969 production year, I'd suggest a lot of this design work may have been in the pipeline in Bracq's last days at MB though I don't know what he was working on in 1966-1967.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

RobSirg

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2020, 03:54:43 »

But I do think the later style exterior rear view mirror is simpatico with the body's design.
jz

I just changed the side mirrors on my early 250SL from the later style to the early (and correct to my car) Goose / Swan neck mirrors and just love the look. I cant see shite out of my left hand mirror now (as I mounted it to cover the holes) and couldn't care less. It's all about the look to me - which I guess is something myself and Monsieur Bracq can agree on. 

Then again - I'm a purist at heart - so even if they were ugly I probably would have changed them  ;D
1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5

mdsalemi

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2020, 19:50:19 »
...I cant see shite out of my left hand mirror now...

...and what makes you think visibility is any better with a later "impure" design?  The only way my side mirrors (driver's and passenger!) became useful was when I fit the convex glass mirrors in them from the Classic Center. No, they are not stenciled "OBJECTS IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER" but I have something akin to a useful field of view! You may be able to find something like that and have it cut down to fit.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

66andBlue

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Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

zak

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2020, 23:20:04 »
hahahah. Good one Dan.
I am truly the beer holder....

jz
1967 250 SL
1983 280 SL
2015 ML 250 Bluetec
2007 ML CDI
2004 E 320 Wagon
1999 E300 Turbodiesel

RobSirg

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2020, 14:33:38 »
...and what makes you think visibility is any better with a later "impure" design? 

Visibility was good before with the later style (LH)mirror as it didn't interfere with the A-Pillar. It's the Goose neck that throws out the mirror position. Unfortunately, I was locked to the position as I wanted the new mirror to cover the holes of the old mirror. Good to know about the convex mirror but no help to me as I am not about to move my mirror and get my door repainted.

I'm not too bothered as some of my classics don't even have a LH side mirror. Funny to hear some (younger) people ask me how I can drive (and park) without a LH mirror? Quite the skill  ;) 
1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5

mdsalemi

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2020, 15:04:50 »
Good to know about the convex mirror but no help to me as I am not about to move my mirror and get my door repainted.

You do NOT need to move your mirror and repaint your door to install the convex mirror; it's only a simple glass replacement done "in situ" and would probably serve to turn your mirror into something useful rather that useless; as it stands now if it can't be used it's "baroque ornamentation" and of that I can assure you, Monsieur Bracq is appalled at such things.

It took me but a few seconds to replace my mirror glass, I assume the older style mirrors don't prove any more of a challenge.

The trick is getting the part to you!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

RobSirg

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2020, 16:39:02 »
Thanks Michael,

My issue with my LH Mirror is that The line of sight is now physically obscured by the A-Pillar, so changing the reflective glass won’t help.

( remember my car is a RHD)

I really need to physically move the mirror along the door towards the rear of the car - which will expose holes, etc.

This problem didn’t occur when the later style ( incorrect to my car) was installed.

Not a big deal - I still prefer the correct (goose-neck) mirrors.
1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5

Pawel66

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2020, 17:13:51 »
As the father said to his child: either fish or aquarium...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

RobSirg

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Re: early vs. late 230SL
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2020, 12:57:31 »
Reminds me of when I was on a business trip and left my then 7y.o in charge feeding my Tropical fish (I had a beautiful 6ft tank)

She thought she would do me a favour and clean the tank - she had seen me use a scourer to clean the algae from the glass  - same as is used in the kitchen...…...

…….. except she used detergent...………

I was sitting at Heathrow when I received the call ……all 50 Tropical fish gone to the big aquarium in the sky.

so in this case as the child said to the Father...….either Fish or Aquarium.
1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5