Cars in Warsaw 1962

[Pawel66]

Cars on the street in Warsaw, 1962. Somewhat different from what you may know from these years from your patios? 

[franjo_66]

That is a fantastic photo Pawel !
Would be great to see a current photo taken from the same position in Warsaw.

Regards
Franjo

[MikeSimon]

It is interesting that the only contemporary cars are a Fiat 500 and the Trabant. Much like many communist countries then, new "Western" cars were not present and people kept older cars running

[Pawel66]

Well, the funny thing about the cars from communist countries was that some of them, when designed in the 50-ies, were fairly modern at that time. But then they were produced unchanged for 30-40 years (e.g. Trabant, Syrena). In the late 60-ies Fiat sold license for their several models to those countries (to Poland it was Fiat 125 and 126). This moved the car making industry to modernity in the 70-ies. But then these cars also stayed unchanged until 90-ies.

On the picture you have:
- the dominant one (3 or 4 of them) are Polish first post war produced Warszawa M20 (produced until 1973!!); Soviet Union sold us the license for their M20 Pobieda (which was based, not necessarily through license) on one of the American cars from the 40-ies).

- there is black Volga, SU development
- Trabant (in the back)

- not sure what is the orange van (Barkas?)
- I am not sure if it is Fiat 500; I do not know what car is it - the white one
- I also do not know what car is the green one

[MikeSimon]

The black car sure looks like a post-war German Opel Kapitän (GM). The Warszawa/Pobedas have a Pontiac look to me.
The tailfin of the green car resembles a Kapitän of the 60s

[Pawel66]

Warszawa, the Soviet Union's GAZ M20 Pobieda (Victory), produced as of 1952, borrowed some elements:
 - Opel Kapitan suspension as some of them ended up in SU after WWII; suspension was re-inforced and simplified
- Dogde engine - simplified

The black one is a SU's Volga (enclosed picture), GAZ M21 Volga - replacement of Pobieda, produced as of 1956.

[FGN59]

The orange van looks like a Renault Estafette, although it looks a bit small. Maybe it’s an optical deformation, or a lookalike.

[yves]

+1 it's an estafette  RENAULT

[Pawel66]

I think you are spot on!

I think the bus is French too - Warsaw had some Chasussons before they started producing the Czech Carosa.

[Merc_Girl]

Warszawa, the Soviet Union's GAZ M20 Pobieda (Victory), produced as of 1952, borrowed some elements:
 - Opel Kapitan suspension as some of them ended up in SU after WWII; suspension was re-inforced and simplified
- Dogde engine - simplified

The black one is a SU's Volga (enclosed picture), GAZ M21 Volga - replacement of Pobieda, produced as of 1956.

Looking at the picture I think you are right Pawel66. I think the cars to left and centre are FSO Warszawa

[Merc_Girl]

I don’t think the small white car is a Fiat 500 either? Fiat 600 perhaps?

[Pawel66]

I think you are spot on Fiat 600!

Yes, they are Warszawas. One of them pick-up variant.

[zak]

Is that a Mb Finback in Pawel's first photo - green in the lower right corner ?
jz

[MikeSimon]

I think the green car in the picture has a chrome rail right under the door handles - which the Fintails did not have. That's why I opted for the Opel Kapitän resemblance.

[Pawel66]

I was hoping it was a Mercedes...
It is a picture from 1962 - could have been early Fintail, there were some of them in Poland. But Mike has a better eye for this...

[SEB]

I think, that behind the black GAZ Wolga  can be the predecessor of the Trabant, this car behind looks like the AWZ P70 build between 1955-1959 in East Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWZ_P70_Zwickau

From the other side in front of this Wolga car can be the Zastava 750. A FIAT 600  in licence build in Yugoslavia between 1955-1985, what is the example for this what was written above, about the production lifecycle of 30 years for cars in the eastern block.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_750

[Pawel66]

You may be perfectly right! I was thinking Trabant 500 or 600, P50: but you may be right!

And Zastava is much more likely in communist Poland of the early 60es than Fiat.

[Merc_Girl]

You may be perfectly right! I was thinking Trabant 500 or 600, P50: but you may be right!

And Zastava is much more likely in communist Poland of the early 60es than Fiat.

Could Be right that it is a Zastava although I note the wiki picture, there was no chromework on the front, unlike the picture and Fiat 600?

Given there is a Renault van in the, I see no reason why they would not also be a Fiat. If one considers that the USSR and Italy were very ‘chummy’, indeed Italy bought their steel from the USSR, which in fact was a grade far lower than used in most countries, and indeed one of the reasons for the significant rust problems Italian cars were renowned for. Of course the lack of underseal didn’t help 😂

[Pawel66]

Some of them (I think before 1968) had those chrome stripes.

I am just saying "more likely". There were some western cars in communist countries those days. They were some imports to institutions (particularly before Polish vans and lorries have been developed) and for private people. Part of those for private people were sold for hard currencies.

But those were rare. Of course in Warsaw, Poznan or Gdansk you could spot foreigners driving their cars as well.

Those deals as you mention steel from Russia could have been pretty peculiar. Another example is Coca-Cola bottling and sales in Poland since early 70ies.

Then, end of 60ies, there was Fiat license time for 125 and 126 models - that took the automotive industry in Poland ahead big time. Then it was lost, of course.

[MikeSimon]

I remember in the 70s, the rust problem on the "Alfasud" (some of it on top of the roof!) was blamed on poor quality steel from Eastern Europe. Alfa Romeo paid for repaints of the whole car.