Author Topic: No kickdown  (Read 5786 times)

Ian45

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No kickdown
« on: April 28, 2005, 07:30:19 »
The kickdown on my 1967 250SL auto doesn't operate. Someone mentioned to me that there is a solenoid on the side of the gearbox, accessible from inside the car. The solenoid can sieze up and affect the operation of the kickdown.

Can anyone advice if this is correct and how I would tackle the job. Can the solenoid be freed off or should it be replaced ?



Ian
1967 250SL
Derby,England

Naj ✝︎

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2005, 07:34:19 »
Hi, Ian,
Good to see you here!!
No doubt one of the auto experts will be round to tell you about a fix, as soon as they're out of bed!

regards
naj


65 230SL
68 280SL
68 280SL

Douglas

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2005, 10:01:32 »
Ian, there is indeed a solenoid on the side of the transmission that controls the kickdown. I changed mine recently, but the trans was out of the car because I also had to replace a leaky torque converter. As I recall, it's possible to change the solenoid without dropping the tranny, but I think it takes some cutting of the tunnel. This is a good question for Dan Caron (aka Dr. Benz).

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

Cees Klumper

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2005, 14:45:11 »
If you look on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel, inside of the car, you should be able to access a metal cover plate underneath the carpeting that allows access to the transmission. From memory I don't recall for sure, but I believe that you can get to all of most of the linkage that the solenoid operates, and possibly the solenoid itself. There is a test procedure for the solenoid (it has three positions that need to engage at different stages) and you can probably get pretty far at freeing the linkage/solenoid if it has frozen up from sitting idle or whatever.
Of course it can also be the wiring, the switch or the vacuum pressure (adjustment) which all affect the kickdown. If you do a search here, or check the technical articles on the homepage, you will for sure find a lot of information. Check for "3-position solenoid".

p.s. welcome ...

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

ja17

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2005, 20:29:03 »
Hello Ian,
Check your fuses first! t
They may look fine but  can loose contact from corrosion or tarnish. Twisting them will sometimes restore the connection.

If the fuses are ok you can reach through the opening in the tunnel and move the linkage rod to make sure it is free.

Also make sure the kidkdown switch under the accelerator pedal is operational. The accelerator pedal must engage the switch. Use a test light to check power going into and out of the switch (plug under car near steering box on firewall).

Check back with results.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

graphic66

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2005, 08:50:01 »
First as mentioned before check fuse #3 this power goes to the double acting solonoid unswitched. The solonoid is activated by switching the ground on and off at two locations, the kickdown switch and the idling switch.  Go under the car and find the kickdown switch just behind the gas pedal. Pull the 2 connector plug off of the switch, Clean those contacts as they may be the culprit. The hook a continuity tester to the two prongs on the switch and push the gas pedal to the floor. The switch should make contact. If it doesn't it could just need adjustement. Go into the car and reach behind the gas pedal and push the plunger of the switch all the way in. If it now works then you must decide why the pedal isn't hitting it. The switch moves in and out by loosening the lock nut in the car and then go back under the car and put a socket wrench on the switch, it should turn in and out on threads in the floorboard. It' a good time to just unscrew it completely and clean and lube the switch and clean the threads. Then screw the switch in until when the gas pedal is fully depressed it actuates the switch. Then go under the car and with the ignition on and the car in drive and the gas pedal at least pushed halfway down as to activate the idling switch, put a jumper across the two wires in the plug you removed from the kickdown switch. The 3 position solonoid should move at this point to the foreward most position. If it doesn't and your sure the gas pedal was depressed and the key was on it could be the linkage on the double acting solonoid is frozen or the soloniod is bad or your idling switch on the throtle body is out of wack. Try the switch first . It is a simple circuit with two switches, the kickdown and the idling switch which is located on your throttle body at the venturi control. It has two wires attached just like the kickdown switch and must not make continuity after 1200rpm and must make continuity under 1200rpm as to activate the double acting solonoid into the rear most position. You can test this by unhooking both wires and starting the car in park and hooking your tester to the two connectors and as you accelerate the motor at precisely 1200rpm the switch should open and you should not have continuity and under 1200 rpm the switch should be closed and make continuity. The swich is adjustable via two allen screws and it slides on it's mount to adjust when it activates. Don't look for any voltage at either of the switches as the double acting solonoid has constant 12 volt power from fuse #3 and you are merely switching to ground with both switches you will not find power at either switch. You can test them with a test light by hooking one lead to the positive terminal on the battery and checking each switch lead for ground, one lead on each switch should have constant ground and one lead on each switch should only be grounded when the switch is activated. Also these switches work together and that is why your kickdown won't work unless the idling switch is in the open throttle position. It is a very simple circuit, 3 wires go to the double acting soloniod on top of the tranny, one from fuse #3 with 12 volt positive unswitched current, Then a wire goes from the double acting solonoid to the kickdown switch and it switches the ground to activate the kickdown. The idling switch is wired to the double acting solonoid also and also switches the ground to activate the double acting solonoid. These switches work together and you must not activate them both at once, that is why you must have the gas pedal slightly depressed when testing the kickdown switch. Now the consant speed solonoid on the manifold to kick up the idle when in gear is supplied constant unswitched 12 volt positive  power via fuse#5 and is activated by two oil pressure switches on the transmission each of which simply switches the ground on and off to the solonoid when the transmission fluid pressurises the forward gear switch or the reversing switch. Remember all of these actions are activated by switching the ground and not the hot lead so looking for 12 volt positive power at any of the switches will not work. You must confirm they are actually switching the ground on and off and there are many many ways to do this depending on you eqiupment and personal taste. I have outlined some details here but not all, and there may be easier or better ways. Just remember, you are switching the ground on and off with constant 12 volt positive power on all the solonoids. The double acting solonoid is simply a 3 position solonoid, with the idling switch activated the solonoid moves rearward, when you go above 1200rpm the solonoid is totaly off and moves in it's relaxed state to the middle position and when you activate the kickdown switch it moves to the forward position.

J. Huber

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2005, 13:53:22 »
This is my personal experience with No Kickdown. For years, I didn't think mine worked. I would "pretty much" floor it -- and it never kicked down. Then one day, after some discussion on it, I decided to "literally" floor it and BAAAM there it went. Frankly, scared the daylights out of me! It was there all along -- just way down there. Personally, I don't ever really need it. I use the shifter for a quick burst on hills, etc. On the open highway, I wouldn't want it. Instead, I rely strictly on the fact that I have a little punch left on the top end.

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

KevinC

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2005, 10:55:22 »
Doesnt the "kickdown" (mainly meant as a passing gear and hill-climbing, I think) solenoid control your take-off gear as well? In other words, if you "punch it" from a dead stop and it takes off in first the way its supposed to, than "kickdown" is functioning. If you take off in second, as you would with out "punching it", its not working. Right?

By the way my owner's manual describes the procedure as "simply step down on accelerator pedal beyond full throttle position...upon which the transmission will step down immediately". Sounds more boring than it actually is.


quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

This is my personal experience with No Kickdown. For years, I didn't think mine worked. I would "pretty much" floor it -- and it never kicked down. Then one day, after some discussion on it, I decided to "literally" floor it and BAAAM there it went. Frankly, scared the daylights out of me! It was there all along -- just way down there. Personally, I don't ever really need it. I use the shifter for a quick burst on hills, etc. On the open highway, I wouldn't want it. Instead, I rely strictly on the fact that I have a little punch left on the top end.

James
63 230SL



Kevin
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

Cees Klumper

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Re: No kickdown
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2005, 12:03:48 »
Yes, if you depress the pedal all the way from start, engaging the kickdown switch, then the car should take off in (a very short) first gear.

The transmission should in fact also shift down when the right engine RPM / throttle position is encountered, without having to activate the kick-down switch. In other words, if you need the automatic to shift down e.g. for passing, it should do so as long as the RPM's are not already too high and the throttle is depressed enough (but not all the way actuating the kick-down switch).

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 12:04:22 by cees klumper »
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II