Author Topic: Automatic Transmssion  (Read 2385 times)

al11

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Automatic Transmssion
« on: June 15, 2021, 21:56:02 »
HELLO,
15 years ago, we shipped our 280SL to France where we spend our summers at the family home in the South. Five years ago, I noticed some small changes to the way the auto transmission was shifting. I asked a couple of questions on this forum but obviously with vague questions you cannot get any good answers. I drove the car from Nice to Aachen Germany. The Mercedes service manager there was also a Pagoda enthusiast. We left the car there for a week while we visited my wife's family in the North of Germany. They found nothing wrong with the car, it was nicely serviced, and the broken turn signal and wiper command arm was replaced, and a third seat in the back was added. I drove the car back to the south (800 miles) with no issues and stored the car for nine months. On our next trip, one day we parked our car in a basement of some parking garage. The ramp was very steep. As soon as we got out the transmission started to act up. It was basically "slipping" without being low on oil. We could not find anyone in the French Riviera capable of fixing this. I found and old Alfa Romeo Team Rally Racing mechanic that took the auto tranny out for us. My wife's family found this super reputable transmission and Pagoda mechanic in Bielefeld. There are a lot of collectors in that general area. Some of the biggest family-owned companies in Germany are based there. Claas agricultural trucks, Miele appliances, Bertelsmann Publishing, etc.... I put the transmission in the back of our sedan and drove 14 hours straight to the front of the shop. The owner came out with a stainless steel, 4 wheeled tray as if an ambulance was bringing a patient in. I went to the Burger King across the street and came back after a short time to see that they had already opened the unit. A rivet of some sort had come out of its place and damaged the teeth in the big pinion. The problem was that they were closing for 1 month for the summer and that they had to locate that part. BUT they had a fully rebuilt transmission that I could exchange for. Tired, I made the decision to part with my old transmission and depart with the new one. The new transmission came from a 230 SL. I asked a couple of times about this; I was reassured that this will not be a problem. I drove the transmission back to the Alpha Romeo guy that was expecting me months later as opposed to hours. I drove the car for about 500 miles and stored it for another year. On our next trip after a week or so the transmission started acting up again. This time we were recommended a garage 100 feet away from Monaco, in Beausoleil. I was hoping they could fix it as they deal with a lot fancy Oldtimers. They could only manage to dismantle it for me to drive it back to Bielefeld. The labor cost was double the Alfa Romeo Mechanic. This time, I took my 10 years old son with me through the Italian Alps with a hotel stay. The Bielefeld shop was surprised to see the transmission back. I left it with them and drove West to Paris. The next day my father-in-law called me from Bielefeld saying that the transmission was fixed. He was generous enough to tell me not to come back for it and that he would drive it to Dole France halfway from Paris to our home in the South of France. We met in a hotel parking lot, had lunch, he went back home, and we drove South. The Monaco garage put the tranny back in but this time the tranny was slipping even more and smelling like caramel. We paid them and towed the car home!
It took us a while to find a reasonably priced transport to Bielefeld. We finally put it up for bidding on a shipping site. Basically, there are these independent guys that drive all over Europe, pulling a single axle trailer. We got lucky; we found a very gentle older man from Cameroon. His trailer was not super fresh, but we liked him. We paid him 1000 Euros cash for a 900 miles tow. He arrived at destination a few hours late. We thought for a long minute that our car was gone!
The Bielefeld garage worked on the car after the summer vacation, I asked for my old transmission back, but it was obviously sold.  In Mid-November the garage notified us that it was ready. Great, it was my father in Law’s 80th and all the family was going to be in Bielefeld.  After the birthday party we realized that there was a big snowstorm forecast in Luxembourg, so my son, now 11, and I decided to take off early. We drove through Luxembourg with no problems, but it started raining. Somewhere close to Chaumont, 400 miles from our departure, the car started stuttering, the rpm not holding stable. I stopped at the next gas station and filled up the tank and took off again. The car started acting up again and we managed to make it to the next gas station ramp 20 miles away, where the car stopped. My 11 old was starting to get scared, it was dark, 10 pm and raining. We walked to the station and called for a tow truck. At midnight we were in an Ibis hotel in the middle of nowhere and the Pagoda was towed to the company’s depot.
The next morning, we found out that the only way we could take a train South to Nice was to first take a 3-hour train ride North to Paris. We went to Paris, took an Uber ride to another train station, and boarded a fast train to Nice. Halfway through the trip it was announced that big rains and flooding in the South had caused the tracks to be closed. Our train would stop in Marseilles. I immediately booked a rental car in Marseilles on my phone. We picked up the car and started driving East. It was about 8pm. Almost 24 hours after our breakdown. An hour into our 2 hours and a half drive they announced that they were shutting down the freeway. My wife still in Germany, found a hotel near the only exit we could take. The problem was that the country road had no lights and had streams of water running through it. We ended up in a stinky and beat up hotel at 11pm. We drove the next morning at 6am home.
Jean Guy, the man from Cameroon, picked up the car the next day and took it to Germany. Water or humidity had gotten into the electrical system and starter. Jean Guy picked up the repaired car and dropped it in the South. A couple months later we decided to fly to France as COVID was hitting the world. We wanted to shelter in our home in France and work remotely. We drove the car a bit until mandatory shutdowns were ordered and one had to have a written statement to leave the house.
The car waited until last month to come back out. Last week at a stop sign it failed to engage into second gear. The car was stuck in third. No Reverse, no neutral, only P and anything else was 3.  We called around to find Jean Guy only to find out that he was just coming out of a 45-day artificial coma due to COVID. A Hungarian guy took the car to Bielefeld.
I hoe hope Jean Guy recovers.
Can a 230 SL Automatic transmission be fitted into a 280 SL?
PS I think on the rebuilt trasmission a few days before the breakdowns, the car was accelerating (reving up) while coming to a full stop.

WRe

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2021, 06:37:00 »
Hi,
you can find the answer here: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Automatic/Start.
Both transmissions are basically the same and are interchangable.
...WRe

Peter van Es

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2021, 08:34:11 »
That must be the shortest, but relevant, reply to the longest, but very entertaining question asked!

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but you are a couple of adventures richer!
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

Pawel66

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2021, 10:01:08 »
You have a brief description of transmission tuning in the link provided, but I would probably encourage you to review the posts about this topic too (through search function). If you just put in the rebuilt tranny, assuming it was done properly on mechanical side, you need to tune it, otherwise it will not work properly. And in order to have it tuned, you need to have a pressure gauge with banjo connector, know where to hook it, know the procedure and know the table with modulator pressures. An average shop may not have that.

I do not have time now to look for the posts for you, sorry, but it is all there.

Mind the pressures states in instructions and posts - I remember there were mistakes there.

You will also find wiring diagrams, I would ne careful with the one from Tech Manual, it may not be clear.

Again, in my opinion an average shop should be able to do it, but they need some know how.

Also: be very careful how they fit the flex disc back and how they assemble drive shaft - there are certain ways to do it and if you fail to do it this way, your next tow trip will be because of the shattered flex disc.

From my experience (owner, not mechanic) I spent a lot of hours studying the forum and Tech Manual to get data and procedures to the mechanic and then I was with the mechanic on the job most often.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

AGT

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2021, 17:27:18 »
Hi and sorry to hear about your troubles.

I have kept my 230SL in Tourrettes Sur Loup in Alpes-Maritimes for the last ten years.  Another member of this forum, who lived in PACA at the time but has since emigrated to South Africa, recommended Prestige Garage in Vence to me and they have looked after my car and kept it running happily throughout my time in France.  Although Prestige Garage specialises in older Jaguars (mainly E-types) they look after a few Pagodas and, so far, I have found them good people to deal with.  I can't remember the hourly labour rate but I think it's less than EUR100 - certainly cheaper than trailering your car across Europe.

There is at least one other member, Francois, in PACA who may have other recommendations for you.

No sunshine in Edinburgh today - I can't wait to be free to travel to France again.

Regards
Andrew

1966 Mercedes-Benz 230SL
1976 Citroen 2cv
1989 Mercedes-Benz 420SL
2012 BMW 125i convertible
2017 MINI Cooper
2019 Jaguar I-Pace
2019 Westfalia Columbus

 
Andrew

1966 230SL

FGN59

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2021, 17:59:25 »
Hi!

Unfortunately, I don’t have any address I can contribute so far. I’m about to move to Marseille, will look for one there, but this is not until next fall.
François

1994 Toyota Land Cruiser SW HDJ80 4.2L diesel
sold:
1969 280SL US specs, 4-speed manual, beige-grey (726H), parchment leather
1962 Jaguar MK2 3.8L (4.2L XJ6 engine), black, tan leather interior
1968 Peugeot 204 roadster, white, black interior
1955 Massey Ferguson TEF20 diesel tractor 😁

al11

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2021, 05:40:19 »
Thank you all for your replies.
Hi and sorry to hear about your troubles.

I have kept my 230SL in Tourrettes Sur Loup in Alpes-Maritimes for the last ten years.  Another member of this forum, who lived in PACA at the time but has since emigrated to South Africa, recommended Prestige Garage in Vence to me and they have looked after my car and kept it running happily throughout my time in France.  Although Prestige Garage specialises in older Jaguars (mainly E-types) they look after a few Pagodas and, so far, I have found them good people to deal with.  I can't remember the hourly labour rate but I think it's less than EUR100 - certainly cheaper than trailering your car across Europe.

There is at least one other member, Francois, in PACA who may have other recommendations for you.

No sunshine in Edinburgh today - I can't wait to be free to travel to France again.

Regards
Andrew

1966 Mercedes-Benz 230SL
1976 Citroen 2cv
1989 Mercedes-Benz 420SL
2012 BMW 125i convertible
2017 MINI Cooper
2019 Jaguar I-Pace
2019 Westfalia Columbus

 
Hello Andrew,
I will chek Prestige out shortly. Thank you for the tip.

al11

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Re: Automatic Transmssion
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2021, 05:40:47 »
Hi,
you can find the answer here: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Automatic/Start.
Both transmissions are basically the same and are interchangable.
...WRe
Thanks