Most accurate/honest way to price project car?

[cgbenz773]

Hi,

I currently own a 1968 280 SL that is in project condition. The car is mechanically sound and last ran a few years ago (will likely get engine running before selling) and the interior is in decent shape (see link below).

That said, I'm having trouble finding a way to price it for sale as-is. Are there any sources you've used to get a fair price quote on a project car? Other than looking on craigslist, facebook, etc.?

Thanks.

[Vander]

Best thing to do is post pictures here and let the members help guide you. What aspect of the car needs work to deem this a project? How much will that work cost?

You say the car is "mechanically sound" but also "should run" to me those are opposites! So I'm guessing it's a non-running project the way I interpret that.

[mnahon]

If it's not running, the buyer has no way of knowing why, even if you claim it just needs 'basic maintenance'. So the buyer would have to price in a large amount to get it running properly. I'd say ~$15K less than the equivalent running car. It's hard to say much more based on your minimal description.

Maybe one systematic approach is start with the value of a #4 (daily driver with blemishes) on Hagerty and then subtract. So if it's a 1969 280SL: https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1969-mercedes~benz-280sl
Hagerty says $37K, minus $15K non-running, etc on downward depending on how much worse than a #4 you have. Here's Hagerty's description of #4:

#4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.

[cgbenz773]

Sure thing! There's a link below to some photos taken recently. I didn't take pictures of some of the trim/hubcaps, etc. that I also have. And the reason I said should be running is that it last ran a few years ago so fingers crossed it still would with some maintenance. I plan on at least getting it running before selling.

Here's a link to what I have:
http://imgur.com/a/0KQPYHa

Thanks in advance.

[cgbenz773]

I shared a link with some extra info in another reply. Hopefully that provides a little more context. Admittedly I'm not totally knowledgeable in the realm of restoration & classic cars, just starting dipping my toes in now!

[Cees Klumper]

Important to know:

• Is all the chrome there? In good shape? Anything missing?
• does it run? When did it run last?
• 4 or 5 speed?

[cgbenz773]

1. Chrome is there, albeit not all. Some side trim, window trim and some other trim is missing.
2. Last ran a few years ago, havent attempted to start since.
3. Not sure, will have to double check.

[Vander]

Next thing when assessing the vehicle are 2 things that will cost the most money to correct....how is the metal underneath? Does any new panels need welded in? And how is the paint? I see the photos, but it's hard to tell, would someone need to strip this down and repaint it?

[cgbenz773]

I think someone would likely need to strip and repaint it. I've checked the high rust point areas and didn't see any, there's a few spots but nothing that seems too deep. The body is in good shape as well. Very minor bumps on the driver's side door. I'm looking to bring it to a mercedes specialist soon and get a better look underneath and get the engine checked. Do you know the ballpark for what these go for in similar condition? Obviously I don't have everything ironed out but I'm confident the engine will run if I connected a battery. I likely will not sell it until the engine is sorted out though.

[Bonnyboy]

I can't access the photos but realistically starting at a #4 condition car value and working back will probably be the best way to look at 1 value.   Then do the same calculations for a #3 condition car - you may have a big difference in value.   

If I were to buy it I would look at what it would cost me to get to a #3 condition car.   

Itemize everything you think is missing and needs work to get to #4 and #3 and add that up and multiply by 75% and take that number from the car value.  I say 75% because people getting a project always seem to think they can save money here and there. 

Paint jobs are expensive but body work can be insane if you have to start fixing prior mistakes.   

Get it running and post it on this site with a price and see if it goes.  If it doesn't go right away you may need to lower the price a bit.   


PS  When I got my car from my Dad we settled at a value based on the value of the hood, trunk, doors and the hard and soft top because we didn't know if the engine/drivetrain was any good after sitting for 20+ years.     

[cgbenz773]

That's a fair way to look at it. Going to take inventory of what I have this week then go from there. Engine was running a few years ago with no issues, just haven't ran it since then because I was living out of state. I PM'd you a new link to those photos, let me know if they work.

[Bonnyboy]

The value of these cars can be much less than what you see on the advertising.   They may list something like yours for $25,000 but actually sell it for $18,000.  I picked up a 280sl for a club member in the spring that was complete and original except for the poor paint job that was done to hide the rusted front fenders and a bit on the back.  The car was running within a day at the shop $USD20,000 was what I got it for.    Before that we got one that looked much worse than yours for $CAN10,000 and another about the same as yours for $Can18,000 but it had a grill and bumpers but interior was shot. 

Yours looks like it would be fun to restore.  Good luck. Mine had chicken wire, newspaper and bondo hiding some of the sins but it was the best thing as the car was parked when a chunk of bondo came off and the body shop ripped out the newspaper and chicken wire and declared the entire car garbage.   I got it cheap and have had lots of fun welding it back up.

Ian

[cgbenz773]

Thanks for that info! It's seems to be a pretty fluid market in terms of what people are getting for these. I too have seen ones in far worse condition go for $25,000 USD and ones in far better shape than mine go for $15,000. Just depends I guess.

Luckily, I know the person who owned this before so I'm hoping there's nothing too shocking to find out. I believe they had it shipped back from Germany when stationed there in the Army.

[mnahon]

Seems like you have a pretty good handle on the pricing---$15-25K, depending on some of the details.

I imagine a running and essentially complete car with most/all its parts installed and in a condition consistent to what's seen in the pictures would be closer to the $25K mark.

A car closer to what's seen in the pictures closer to $15K---the uncertainties being what parts are missing, how much rust is there, what's the running state.

Assessing the rust status does require some work. It's easy to think there's not much rust in a superficial assessment and then find that it's quite a bit worse when delving deeper.

[cgbenz773]

Is there a way to properly go about checking out and verifying potential rust issues? I'm leaning towards selling it, but would like to get an idea for an honest price for myself and a buyer before moving forward.

[Vander]

Put the car on the lift and take lots of photos for potential buyers to view in your ad. Also make the car available for a pre-purchase inspection.

[mnahon]

Here you go...

https://classicandsportscar.com/features/buyers-guide-mercedes-benz-230-280sl-pagoda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UlyIWJPDeE

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLihgxPAE6TJ--Ow0jSA0X6p8CoeS4ddV_

[cgbenz773]

Thanks for those links, they were really helpful. Now to get it on a lift, check those rust prone areas and get it running.

[teahead]

Get it running and see if all the electrics work.

Firewall and engine compartment looks ok.  But floors/rockers/trunk needs thorough inspection.  Fender notches?  Spot welds on front fenders and trunk intact?  How's the softtop?  Hardtop available?

No way to really tell from those pics.  Can be $10k-$40k (if it's running good and rust free).

[Shvegel]

Here is what I think having just restored a tired car.  Running or not running doesn't matter all that much.  Even if you have to do a complete rebuild it is a fairly fixed expense of 10-12 thousand dollars.  Interior is the same.  However the body can be a life sucking pit of despair.  The inner fenders show signs of previous deterioration and repair.  If that is true and someone has glossed over the rust it could be a really tough car to restore at today's prices.   Just fixing the front sheet metal could equal the engine cost and by the time you get to sills, floors, trunk floor, rear fenders, inner fenders and rear panel it could be a $60,000 body repair (I spent around $40,000 but the parts are 4 times as expensive now).  The body and missing parts are really the whole deal here and many photographs will tell the story.