Right Foot

[n/a]

I'd like to talk (or write) about manual vs. automatic transmissions.  I have two old cars, an auto. BMW 2002 (www.theResearchSource.net/2002.htm) and a 4-speed 230SL.  I think the 3-speed automatic on the BMW is amazing in that you literally shift the gears with your right foot and it is very responsive.  Plus, it is lower maintenance.  Manually shifting can be fun and easy but it can also be a pain sometimes on some of these cars and particularly for women.  Previously I had the same BMW, albeit a 1600, with a 4-speed and I considered (still consider?) the automatic an upgrade.

But now most people, and prices, seem to all want manual shifting?  The SLs have a four-speed automatic.  I've driven them but am not an expert.  My gut tells me they might be "sluggish" with the hardtop but fine to great without...

I have heard the expression "shift with your right foot" before but don't know where.  Would some of the experts here care to chime in?

Part of my curiousity here is, How do you market an automatic?  Again, I would think women...   but they're for the most part not active enthusiasts or participants on this board!

[J. Huber]

Hey Peter. I can only speak for myself -- but I like the fact that mine is an automatic. Over the years, I have heard the negative press that they get -- from less power to "clunky." Again, since my 230SL is my one and only -- I don't buy it. The old goat amazes me when I scoot here and there. It strikes me as darn peppy. And, with some artful right-foot driving, shifting is generally smooth and pleasurable.

Now don't get me wrong, stick shifts are great fun -- I had a little 3 series BMW that I loved to zip around in. With the SL though, I like steering with one hand and waving to admirers (of the car) with the other!

James
63 230SL

[Malc]

Shift with your right foot I believe comes from activating the kick down on the autobox when you floor the throttle.

As to the great Auto/manual debate I really think it depends on:
Where you live and drive IE mainly town, stop start traffic, do you do lots of miles?

Engine size. Small engines, usually less than 2 litres suffer from a proportional larger powerloss with an automatic box. I have driven both an manual and an automatic mini (the old type) and there was a noticable difference, well they were only 1000cc. That said I used to have a Jaguar XJ6 with a 4.2litre engine and an autobox, went like a rocket. However modern small engines have lots of power these days....

Personal preference. With an automatic I somehow feel I haven't quite got complete control. THe car is doing something without my input, sounds silly but true. My Missus hates automatics......

Guess the best compromise I have ever come across was my Citroen 2CV which had a "traffi-clutch" basically it had a manual box and standard clutch, but also a centrifugal one as well. so in stop start traffic you hit the brakes, the engine slowed down and the clutch disengaged, rev it up and off you went again, brilliant, Rover used a similar system in the 1950's, Saab for the 2-stroke 96's. I think though these systems were legislated out as being unsafe

THen there is all the "tiptronic" systems from Citroen (DS19), NSU Ro80, VW, Porsche etc

Sorry for the ramble
Malc  

[Raymond]

Driving a sports car with an automatic is like making love by proxy.  

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[Cees Klumper]

If the automatic/engine setup is functioning properly, you will be able to shift down with your foot, WITHOUT engaging the kickdown switch, i.e. sufficient throttle at the right RPM should cause the trans to downshift without you having to kickdown. As far as upshifting, the upshift point really SHOULD depend on how hard you press the throttle; so the shift point will be at a much higher RPM when you apply a lot of throttle (again, without having to floor it) than when you apply less throttle. Something to do with the amount of vacuum at different throttle positions that influences the shift points.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Raymond

Driving a sports car with an automatic is like making love by proxy.  

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

...which may be true, but the 113 isn't a sports car.  It is a touring car.  Had swing axle suspension (like a Corvair); recirculating ball steering (like an Oldsmobile), generally considered underpowered (anemic acceleration by sports car standards) so all that being said, an automatic is a dandy transmission for this car!  It is a great automobile whether you have a 230, 250 or 280 version, Euro or USA, suto or standard.  It excels at not one thing but all together it is a beautiful package and that's why were all here, right??  From its dreamy lines to wonderfully quirky things like the fuel injection, it has seduced us.

For those that like to shift, it is pretty simple (I do it all the time) to drop it into 3rd without really altering your accelerator position--simply move the shift lever from 4 to 3!  Gives that extra burst of power.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[n/a]

eBay.  Who can offer advice about eBay?  My plan is to put the BMW on there Saturday, which I have determined--speculated--to be the best day.  My dilemma is that I don't know if it is best to set a reserve or not.  I'm inclined toward making the first bid at $X,XXX (a minimally acceptable amount) and going from there.

It is too bad that eBay lumps "Pagodas" in with all other SLs and unless you do a search by years you get hundreds of hits.  For BMW 2002s it is two quick clicks from ebay.com--it is usually 10-20 cars and it is fairly easy to watch and spot trends.  This new market segment may very well help support prices.  You can definitely see how "parts cars" have become "restoration projects."  When I've looked the Pagodas are also a manageble number but vary wildly in price.  It is a little more complex with the SL...

Regarding auto. vs. manual I'm surprised by the less vocal SL following.  My guess is that the automatic will become more desirable and that the "disparity" will wane, perhaps at least partially because of the number of them in this country.  For those familiar with my tribulations around which car to sell probably the single most identifiable factor is that the SLs are worth about double in Europe; it simply bodes well...  Now if I were to sell my 230SL, my positioning would be as one of the last sports cars:  4-speed, no options, manual steering, etc.  But I'm real interested in the automatics and I'd like to drive a few!

[J. Huber]

Hi Peter. At the risk of being banished forever, here is a handy link to Ebay Pagodas that I like to use...

http://pagoda113.com/eve/ubb.x/a/frm/f/9796041521




James
63 230SL

[Douglas]

For what it's worth, a lot of people have converted automatic 2002s to 5-spds. I understand it's a very straightforward job and parts are plentiful. Anyone who likes your 2002 and balks at the tranny should find comfort in knowing a conversion is easy.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by PeterinCO

Now if I were to sell my 230SL, my positioning would be as one of the last sports cars:  4-speed, no options, manual steering, etc.  But I'm real interested in the automatics and I'd like to drive a few!

Just come to the Tech Session.
http://index.php?topic=2120

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420