Author Topic: csv valve  (Read 8247 times)

n/a

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csv valve
« on: February 17, 2005, 12:14:51 »
Hi folks

I have a few problems that I could really use some advise on. I have a 1969 280sl. I have the cold start valve that is mounted on the manifold. I believe that this valve is malfunctioning. When I remove the center screw after the vehicle has started and is warm, I have gas still running by the valve and giving me a very rich mix. There may be a danger to driving it this way but I dont know that. I found a new one on a mercedes site and they wanted $859 for it. That's almost what I need to renew my season ticket to the New England Patriots next season.

4 questions

Are there other sites where I might be able to locate one?
Does anyone know where a used one might be had?
Does anyone know of any rebuild kit so that the user can repair?
Is it dangerous to drive with a malfunctioning csv valve?

Thanks in advnace for your time.

lowleadman

jeffc280sl

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2005, 12:58:28 »
As I recall he CSV itself is opened by a solenoid plunger.  The ball type valve is spring loaded so when the plunger is removed (electric circuit) the valve is closed.  I imagine you have a stuck valve, broken solenoid or bad relay.  I'd start by taking the valve apart and cleaning it.  Then I would check to see if the solenoid plunger extends, opens, on a cold start and withdraws (closes) as the car warms.  You can check the electrical operation with an ohm meter on the solenoid terminal.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

erickmarciano

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2005, 14:16:55 »
don't drive like this you will kill your engine. you can remove the fuel line going to it and plug it on the 2 ends. it will be harder to start . remove the valve and you can try to clean it or send it to rebuit .I don't think it is the electric part of it , you can remove the solenoid to see it it is extended all the time , if so that is your problem or it is the ball and spring of the valve. put 12v from the batery to the solenoid < once removed and see if it goes out and in
good luck

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

Jonny B

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2005, 19:34:46 »
Try using the search function on the site for the CSV, cold start, or similar. I believe other folks have had decent luck with rebuilding the valve.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

rwmastel

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2005, 19:47:49 »
quote:
Originally posted by Jonny B

Try using the search function on the site for the CSV, cold start, or similar.
Here, here!  This is a great tool.  I searched on CSV and it returned 3 pages of discussion topics.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

hands_aus

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2005, 23:58:25 »
Naj, Arthur, JoeA, George Davis, anybody

Further questions about CSVs...

The BBB 1968- talks about lapping the 'valve seat' (Job page 07-14/12) to stop the CSV from leaking while this discussion mentions "ball/spring" type valves.

Are the 'ball type' valves interchangeable with the old type valves?
The valve part is removable, it should be replaceable too.

I was speaking to an engineer today and he said the ball wears out-of-shape but it might be able to be replaced.
Has anybody done this?
What do places like injection pump rebuilders do if they rebuild them?

Could it be sourced say from aftermarket suppliers?
There must be lots of use for them in auto/ fluid engineering?

My mate has priced a new CSV assembly from MB Brisbane (via Germany) at $1800.00 plus GST 10%, nearly AUD $2000.00..... unbelieveable!

I read the earlier part of this thread and it says that the solenoid may not retract all the way.

Can they be cleaned and lubricated or do they have to be replaced?

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
« Last Edit: July 20, 2005, 05:34:20 by hands_aus »
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
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mdsalemi

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2005, 05:52:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by lowleadman

Does anyone know where a used one might be had?
Does anyone know of any rebuild kit so that the user can repair?

lowleadman


When my FI pump was rebuilt by H&R Fuel Injection of Bohemia, New York (you can look them up) Hans Utke also rebuilt (as necessary) the cold start valve.

You can send the CSV to him for analysis and repair.  Sometimes it is just better to leave something like this in the hands of an expert.  Even if you were able to get a repair kit yourself, you could never approach the project with the experience level of Hans.  My guess is he might be able to repair, rebuild or replace if necessary.  In the time it takes you to research this, Hans would most likely have it done.  I sent him my pump on a Monday, and it was back on a Thursday--CSV included.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

George Davis

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2005, 09:59:00 »
Bob,

the CSV is a simple beast and well worth attempting a fix yourself, in my opinion.  It may only need a good cleaning, that has saved more than one.  The term ball-and-spring may be slightly misleading, an artifact of translating German terms to English.  We'd probably call it plunger-and-spring(?).

The solenoid can indeed get stuck, in my case the rod was stuck to the tiny rubber seal.  A bit of WD-40 and some twisting/pulling/pushing in/out freed it up.

My valve was also stuck.  After disassembly and pushing the plunger out, I cleaned the valve bore with a roll of fine emery cloth soaked in WD-40.  The pressure of the roll trying to expand outward was enough, you don't need a lot of pressure.  The idea is not to remove metal, just whatever varnish or lead or whatever is stuck to the bore wall.  Anyway, move the roll in/out and twist it a few times, then trial fit the plunger.  Keep at it until the plunger is free but doesn't wiggle side to side.  Also clean the valve seating surfaces with a good carb cleaner or similar on a Q-tip.  Reassemble and give it a try.  You're only out 30 minutes and no money if it doesn't work, so what the heck.  If that doesn't work to seal the valve, then lapping would be the next thing to try.

Easiest to work on by removing the CSV from the manifold.  I found the large o-ring seal at a plumbing supply store.  There might be a paper gasket, too, but my car didn't and still doesn't have one, just the o-ring.

Good luck!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

A Dalton

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2005, 10:16:56 »
I agree..
 Almost all leaking CSVs need nothing more than a good cleaning..

ted280sl

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2005, 16:49:34 »
My own experience is that the CSV is a rather simple device. I believe it is worth taking out and cleaning. After re-installing it put the ignition in the running position and see if fuel is leaking. If it is still leaking the brass valve needs to be replaced. Hans at H&R did mine for less than $100.
This problem can destroy your engine by thinning down your oil and destroying the cylinder rings. It is not my intent to scare you but, take care of it.
regards,
Ted

hands_aus

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Re: csv valve
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2005, 05:42:40 »
Guys,
Thanks for your replies.

The "ball/spring" valve is what is on my mates CSV (September 1970 280SL). It is a brass cylinder with a contained ball bearing held in place by a spring, definitely different to the old units.

We will work on it this weekend.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best