Engine number vs. chassis number

[Pawel66]

I see, thank you!

[zoegrlh]

Jose, welcome to our Pagoda Group. You will find a wealth of knowledge about the Pagoda with this group. You were questioning if your motor was the original. As John stated if you motor was replaced by MB in Germany, you will have a tag on the block that will say Original Mercedes Benz, tauschaggregan, with a number of the engine 130—————, and then the Tigi Nr. (Engine block/serial number).  If you have this tag you have a replacement engine, which does not cheapen the value of he SL, because it was put in/replaced by Mercedes Benz..
By the way, we just came back from Porto, what a wonderful city, and great wine. One of the best trips we have taken. Portugal is a hidden Jewel. Bob

[desousa]

Thanks Bob.
Shhh don’t tell anyone… otherwise it will soon become another tourism mecca…
You are very welcome next time you visit us.
Jose

[Pawel66]

I was there as well and I liked it a lot! I am more a vodka drinker, but wine was not the only attraction! Will never forget the cruise down the Porto river (we used all vodka supply, they stopped the ship and bought some at the supermarket).

Beautiful architecture!

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

One more data point to add to the collection:

my '65 230SL (German Market) which I have been told would be considered mid run:

VIN: 010662
Automatic
Delivery: 5/17/1965
Engine Number: 2173 (and luckily number on engine matches data card)

[Benz Dr.]

Matching numbers, or in this case engine numbers, are kind of like " classic cars." It's a thing that has certain meaning but has been locked on to by the car collecting crowd. On cars that can be cloned, which are rare and valuable, it means everything, that, or they're million+ cars and those things do matter. On our 113's, options aside from model, condition, year, and perhaps colour, would be one of the few things that make one car worth more than another, all other things being equal.

Given the fact MB dealers were instructed to stamp the original engine number into a new replacement block, what does matching numbers mean to a mass produced fairly common car? Is it nice to have? Sure. Is it going to bring you more at auction?

( Roll MS in 3....2....1 )

[john.mancini]

Dan, I could not agree with you more. As I watch my newest form of entertainment, Bring a Trailer, I see bidders more concerned about W113 matching engine numbers than overall car condition. BIG mistake. You really can't "forge" a Pagoda like they do with 57 Corvette Fuelies or 67 Corvette 427's. With Pagodas, you only got one engine choice each year. That was it. So............who cares if it's the original block?? Just give me a nice straight, never rusted, never hit Pagoda.

[MikeSimon]

That's not the point, Gentlemen. I think there is definitely some value to a car that has a number pairing that falls into the "original" category. You can still mess up an 280SL by putting a 2.8L block/motor in that does not belong in the car, i.e.: a 280SE block or an early 2.8L motor in a late car. Unless it is properly documented to me it is a sign of "tampering" and trying to present something that is not there.

[Benz Dr.]

That's not the point, Gentlemen. I think there is definitely some value to a car that has a number pairing that falls into the "original" category. You can still mess up an 280SL by putting a 2.8L block/motor in that does not belong in the car, i.e.: a 280SE block or an early 2.8L motor in a late car. Unless it is properly documented to me it is a sign of "tampering" and trying to present something that is not there.

Fair enough.  How much more would you be willing to pay at auction for such a 113?

Tampering? All of these cars have been tampered with. Unless you can find a low miles, original owner, who only worked on their car, it's almost a unicorn these days.

[MikeSimon]

Semantics, Dan. If I would be in the market for a W113, I would want to find a car that is not being misrepresented and is as original as possible. yes, I would pay more for a 280SL that has a 130-983 motor than for one with a 130-980.

[zoegrlh]

I agree with Dan, if the replacement engine was put in by MB, and particularly by MB( in Europe MB garages are owned by MB) then it’s a no brainer that the replacement is A OK, and done well to MB specs. But yes, the Pagoda would not be an example of a SL from factory assembly line. However, any of those prestigiously restored Pagodas are in fact not exactly the same care that came off the assembly line. So numbers might mean a lot to the collector, they are missing the boat if they are waiting for perfect car to come across the auction block. What will the market bring, it’s all c about timing, buyers in the market, financing rates, etc. if I was to sell my SL, I C don’t think I would use BAT, heard too much negative comments about it. I think that buyers trend to write negative comments about your car, so as to keep the bidding lower. That’s what I’ve been told. Anyway that’s my two cents. Bob