Starter problem - failed in 1 hour

[Artkez]

Hello and Thanks for all the help  My son Steven (Age 30 ) and  I are new members ( see our new member intro) to the group and new owners of a 69 280SL  We are so happy and appreciative of the  very valuable information that we have garnered from the many high quality posts for fellow members.  TY


Our current project was to replace the starter since it was making an heart breaking grinding noise on turning the ignition, We  reviewed many of the  suggestions and  hints in replacing this old original ( I think) starter, 

Our car has about 107 k  km and has bee restored about 8 years ago with new paint, engine out repairs and  transmission out repairs .  The car really runs and looks  very nice !!
We purchased it about 3 weeks ago and have an appointment with local Pagoda mechanic in 2 weeks but instead of towing the car  and wasting  a lot of time, we decide to replace the starter at home  and make the delivery of the car much easier to the mechanic shop

After careful planning we replaced  the starter (Bosh remanufactured replacement )  in about 1 hour with the help of a local mechanic( he never worked on Pogodas)  The moment we started the car with the new starter  it immediately cranked over and started  with enthusiasm and gusto,!!   It was beautiful and very satisfying ,  we repeated this starting process about 6-10 times and all was perfect and powerful !!!    We were so happy !!!

So Steve and his fiancé decide to take it for a local drive to heat it up and  evaluate  the Hot start problem that we noticed last week  ( this will be another topic in the future discussion )  The moment we stopped the car and tried to start it again  NO LUCK  the starter spins,  does not make that severe scarry grinding noise  but it spins with no contact to the fly wheel.  Seems like the gear is not allowed to contact the fly wheel .   We tried banging on the starter pushing the car around but no luck the gear of the starter is not allowed to reach the flywheel it seems like the gear is just spinning with no contact.

The battery  of the cars is  new  about 8 months old, the wire of the Positive lead to starter is relatively good shape,  the flywheel seems to be in good shape  (see attached picture of fly wheel)

Maybe it has something to do with the heat created from the engine causing the failure of the  Bendix

Is there a weak  relay not allowing sufficient power to the starter thus not allowing the gear to rise ??

Can I try to turn the flywheel and see if it will allow the starter  gear to reposition itself

Maybe the starter was not tightened  enough thus on aligned to allow the gear to rise to reach the flywheel??

The car  is now cold and still no luck with any cranking noise the gear just spins in place .  It is a real heart breaker, once a beautiful  powerful starter and hour later fails and does not stat the car and you need to embarrassingly  tow it home.   :'(
Love to have your opinions on how to proceed     Thanks     Arthur and Steve

[stickandrudderman]

If the car has a manual shift, put it in gear with the brakes released and puch the car. This will rotate the crankshaft to a different park position.
Apply brakes and select nuetral and try the starter again. If it now spins the engine then you have worn teeth on the ring gear and will need to have the transmission out to replace it.
If you have auto then it's a little less simple in that you have to manually turn the crank by hand, either on the alternator nut or crankshaft pulley nut.

[Artkez]

If the car has a manual shift, put it in gear with the brakes released and puch the car. This will rotate the crankshaft to a different park position.
Apply brakes and select nuetral and try the starter again. If it now spins the engine then you have worn teeth on the ring gear and will need to have the transmission out to replace it.
If you have auto then it's a little less simple in that you have to manually turn the crank by hand, either on the alternator nut or crankshaft pulley nut.

Hi Stick,
Thanks for the feedback
We did exactly what your recommended, the mechanic was able to  turn the crankshaft and turn the flywheel  but the same thing happened, the starter Bendix seem to be extending and meeting the flywheel and the motor of the starter  was spinning but the flywheel did not turn.

he used a mirror to look ad the connection of the flywheel and the gears of the starter  and it appeared that the starter motor was not able to turn the flywheel  , it was just freely spinning without moving the flywheel.  His conclusion was the the starter  was broken and needed to be replaced .

If the new starter was broken, i hope that we did noting to make it fail .  It started about 10 times after we put it in service , it sounded great and very powerful but at the end of the day it failed and  it just had this clicking and winding noise.

I hope it is not another issue , maybe lack of voltage from the positive main line to the starter

Any suggestions that i should preform before pulling the starter out ??

Thanks   Arthur

[Cees Klumper]

Sounds like the new starter broke, nothing you did and nothing to do with the power supply etc. Just really bad luck with a failed new part. That is my guess based on what you reported anyway, I could be wrong. If you can swap it for another one that's what I would try first at this point.

[Artkez]

Sounds like the new starter broke, nothing you did and nothing to do with the power supply etc. Just really bad luck with a failed new part. That is my guess based on what you reported anyway, I could be wrong. If you can swap it for another one that's what I would try first at this point.

Hi Cees
Thanks for touching base,  I'll try to contact the parts store and get a replacement starter and switch them out  and hope that all will be fine.
I added  liberally some RED grease - hi temp variety  to the gear of the starter prior to install, i hope that was not the problems

Keep you posted    Arthur

[stickandrudderman]

I added  liberally some RED grease - hi temp variety  to the gear of the starter prior to install, i hope that was not the problems

Keep you posted    Arthur

That may well be the problem. You should not apply grease to the starter motor as it will cause exactly this issue.

[Artkez]

Stick   - 

Thanks so much !!!  You are absolutely spot on with the  causation of the problem.  We used  a ton of high temp grease on the gear  of the starter and drove  the car for about 1 hour  to get it hot after installation thus all the grease probably seeped into the clutch mechanism and did not allow it to engage and turn the flywheel.

We are so happy to find the cause early  and not have it be a chronic problem.   

Very much appreciative of your recommendation

Arthur and Steve

[Artkez]

So a little bit of an update I just replaced the starter with the identical, new starter but this time I did not add any grease at all to the gear of the starter

Everything looks great and starts up very powerfully and quickly. I’ve done it about a dozen times so far with no problems at all for

the next couple of days I’ll try to warm up the engine and run it for about an hour and start it up and see what happens.
Thanks for all the feedback I appreciate it,   SArthur