Timevalve Exhaust - Originality

[SilverSpear]

Hi all,

So it is time to tackle that subject, and Timevalve eas recommended by Michael Salemi who got me in touch with Mike (Thanks M.S!).

As I noticed, Mike is resistant to OE specs and can simply build a system that "fits perfectly" the pagoda. My inner purist voice doesnt like that and prefer to have at least pieces that are exact copies as OE at minimum.

Surprisingly against all that I am hearing on this forum, Mike was like "this is what I have, you try to source OEM if you would like OEM" kind of reply.

Question remains, how exact are those mufflers to Mercedes in measurement? And the pipes lengths?

Yes I know that his need to be welded which I don't like at all.

[mdsalemi]

As has often been repeated here and in many other locations dealing with classic and or collectible cars, a car is only original ONCE.

I cannot tell you whether or not the size, shape, dimensions, internal construction or any other metric of the Time Valve Stainless Steel exhaust system matches the original. I cannot (and can anyone, 50+ years later?) tell you whether an OEM exhaust today matches EXACTLY the one originally installed on your car, or even if the exact same muffler system down to the bolts and hangers was exactly the same on Pagoda #1 versus Pagoda #Last. Just like there were different paint vendors (G vs H) during the run, there may have been different parts vendors too.

Your car will not be original with a replacement exhaust regardless of where it came from. It will more closely approximate original with an OEM welded system versus a clamped together Time Valve. There are many members here who have opted for Time Valve, and other members who have gone the welded OEM route. I'm certain there are a mix of other exhaust systems as well.

It is a great and noble effort to try and get the car to a point where it is "as original" as you can. But, there will simply have to be some compromises made along the way. Tires are a big compromise. The original tires as fitted--the Firestone Phoenix and Continental RA60 "half radials" are long out of production. Even getting anything in the precise size of 185HR14 is challenging. The closest approximations are tires that many think are overpriced, and thus they choose a different tire size such as P195. Other areas of compromise can be in the finish: if you can get a new automatic transmission filler tube, for example, it will NOT be cadmium plated nor will it be zinc plated; it will be painted black. If you replace the check valve that runs across the top of the valve cover, the replacement will look very different from the original. Replacement wheel covers for later cars are now stainless steel instead of chrome plated. These are examples I ran into, but I bet there are many more.

Unless you run into an unfortunate incident as I did, the TimeValve may very well be the last exhaust system you ever buy for your car. It's not original though.

[John Betsch - "SADIE"]

Just a quick note: When I found it necessary to replace my exhaust system, I called the M-B Classic Center.  Their response: Call Timevalve.

JB

[wwheeler]

The two things I quickly noticed that were different on the time valve system versus an OEM system was 1) lack of cross over just after the pipes bend going under the bottom side and if front of the muffler 2) Lack of shield in front of the front muffler. I was able to duplicate those more or less and weld them to the pipes.

I did weld the system and and even though it is stainless, I ceramic coated the system satin black as the OEM system. Is every dimension the same as it left the factory? As Michael said and I agree, no. But it looks close enough and I will never have to replace it because of corrosion. Works for me. 

[ctaylor738]

My $.02s:

I have probably installed a dozen Timevalve systems over the years.  I have not had problems with fitment.  Obviously they are different in appearance.  Timevalve provides a single center section, instead of the resonator with separate pipes back to the muffler. The downpipes are two pieces with no crossover.

My current 230sl #133 has Mercedes downpipes (available off and on from the Classic Center) and Timevalve back to the rear.  This is SL Tech's recommended solution.

IMO it's a bum rap to complain about Mike not offering "OEM" systems. That just isn't his market niche.

Last year Ray and I installed an aftermarket steel system that the owner sourced from Classic Mercedes Parts (https://classic-mercedes-parts.com) on a 280sl.  The fit, appearance, and quality were very good.  I have bought other parts from them and been very satisfied.

Cheers,

CT

[SilverSpear]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your input, really appreciate that.

@Michael, I definitely agree with you, each car is only original once, what we try to do always is getting that originality back to the best of our abilities. What is great about these cars is that you can still buy a ton of parts for them both from MB and private vendors. You will be amazed what I was able to secure in rare parts over the past few months!
Tires will definitely be last though, and there will always be something with those cars, it is a project for a lifetime.

@John, I wouldn't be surprised. I bet MBCC have a huge database for suppliers whenever they don't carry a part anymore.

@Wallace, the lack of shield and things that deviate from factory, is something I am trying to avoid. As long as the mufflers themselves have similar dimensions (LxWxH) of factory ones, I can definitely adjust their positioning/tubes like factory. Where the car will be restored, I have access to fantastic SS fabricators/welders.

@CT, my MB downpipes are still in excellent condition. Treated them on a temporary basis with a rust converter. Need to see what direction I will be moving forward and decide whether to fully restore them or not.
In your opinion, you prefer if I mix between that and TV's SS mufflers? It has occurred to me honestly while talking to Mike, and I can ceramic coat the whole thing as Wallace did.

The pictures attached shows one of my existing downpipe, the second is what Timevalve are offering and the third are the rear pieces that I also acquired over the years from MB as new. Question remains:
1- Shall I get a full new system from Timevalve?
2- Get everything after the downpipes?
3- Get only the mufflers?

[Kevkeller]

Good lord…that is a nice looking undercarriage.

[RAY]

I'll second that.
Don't forget also the Timevalve also changes the exhaust note.

[zoegrlh]

I have replaced my exhaust from headers to chrome tail pipe extensions with MB, for the true sound. I did think of Timevalve and priced their both welded pipes and clamp kits. I thought long and hard about this, because of some Timevalve pipes that were taken off a 220S that had been on the vehicle for 15 years, and still looked brand new.

[roymil]

Hi Wallace,
I'm wondering about the ceramic coating you mentioned you put on your 280SE exhaust and if that was only to match OEM or if there are performance reasons too?  Maybe black will run cooler than stainless finish?   

I have no idea what my 280SL exhaust came like since I know it has been replaced once.  I want to go with stainless for sure though.  thanks, -Mark

[wwheeler]

Hi Mark!
No strictly to match the OEM color. The stainless look under there just wasn't right for me. It probably does run cooler though as ceramic coaters seems to advertise that. I never bothered to compare before and after. I was lucky and had a coater near by that could handle the entire welded system.