Help valuing a '70 280SL

[twistedtree]

I have been out of the market for these cars for well over 10 years, and have lost track of pricing.  I now see asking prices ranging from a low of $10-$20k for a heap of parts, to as much as $300k.  I can guess what cars at either end of the spectrum are like, and my car is neither of those.  So I wanted to throw it out there to see what sort of a range people think is realistic.

Here is what I think is an objective description.  For now I'm not going to post photos because the car hasn't been cleaned up, and I don't yet know how well it will clean up.

- 1970 280SL, manual transmission.  114k miles on the clock
- Red body/top, black interior.  MBTex seats.  Std config with hardtop and soft top.
- Original build card.
- Build card says 576 red, but it has been repainted to a brighter red, I think 568.  You can see the difference with the dash apart and the original color visible.
- The car has had repairs, but has not been restored.
- It will be in sound mechanical condition.  I am rebuilding the suspension front and rear, shocks, axle boot, etc.  The clutch master and slave cylinders were replaced.
- Heater control levers were all broken and have been replaced.
- The engine works fine.  I don't know if it was rebuilt prior to my ownership.  I have not touched it.
- One of the front fenders has been replaced at some point, as has the trunk floor pan with an original MB part.
- The car does have rust.  It's not going to fall apart, but it has rust in the usual places, and likely some perforations.  But I honestly don't see any reason why it can't be enjoyed indefinitely as a driver in its current condition, provided it's kept inside and not exposed to salt.
- I think the interior is original.  No tears in the seats or door panels.
- I haven't looked at the soft top but my notes say there are issues with it, so if an owner wants to actually use it, it will need to be replaced.
- Everything on the car works; lights, gauges, fans, wipers, etc.
- New bumpers front and rear from Millers.  Other chrome shows pitting here and there.
- New Vredstein tires.
- Original steel wheels and covers.
- All numbers match for body, engine, and transmission.

I think it will be a respectable "20 foot" driver, and won't require much of anything for someone who just wants to enjoy using it.  Alternately I think it's a good candidate for a full-on restoration, if that's what you want.

So, what sort of value range would you guys put on it?

[Lori]

I think it will be difficult to determine a range based on just description.  The "R" word affects everyone's opinions differently.  In order to valuate my car for insurance purposes, I follow the Bring A trailer auctions.   While sometimes these auctions are crazy, at least you'll get an idea.  Plus there are hundreds of photos to compare with your car.

https://bringatrailer.com/mercedes-benz/w113/

[john.mancini]

I agree with Lori. Without a thorough inspection by someone who has W113 experience, it’s difficult to put a value on your car. BaT auctions usually include 200 to 400 detailed photos. For me, rust and previous body repair is a deal killer. However, some of our members have performed incredible restorations on resurrected cars. It can be done, but with tremendous time and very deep pockets. Do you have detailed pictures?

[twistedtree]

I looked through a bunch of BaT sold listings, and think it's worth between $30 and $50k, depending on how well it cleans up.  Curb appeal and general shininess is a major factor, which is no surprise.  But I saw several examples with rust the same or worse selling in that range.

[MikeSimon]

Maybe I am alone with that opinion, but I think BaT IS NOT a good place to determine value of a car unless you plan to sell it there. Prices on BaT are significantly higher than everywhere else. There are a huge number of buyers/bidders with more money than brains/knowledge and also bidders with no intend to buy but are there for the fun and they throw bids in they know will not win and they drive the prices up. In addition, you have the regular gallery with no clue, but they just make worthless comments in order to pad the auctions. I always wonder if they are "employed" by BaT.

[john.mancini]

Mike is 100% correct. Pagoda prices on BaT seem to be over-inflated, especially in the recent past. I will say though, lately there are more honest, expert opinions from our members here at sl113.org that are appearing on BaT. The one thing I have noticed is that bidders/buyers are severely overpaying for rusted out examples, placing more importance on a “matching numbers” engine. A perfect or near perfect original bodied SL, with zero rust or accident history, is far more valuable than a matching numbers engine block. You can’t make a fake Pagoda. They came with one engine, depending on the year/model. A 230SL is still a 230SL, even though it may have a replacement 127 MB block. It’s not as though you are turning a 57 base engine Corvette into a faked 57 Fuelie.

[Jack the Knife]

I'm going to respectfully take a different tack and say that if sellers are managing to get the figures they're getting on BaT, then that does show the market, at least on BaT. Probably in a week or two, 600 W113s will have sold on that website since early 2016, with over 100 of those in this past year. I'm using loose numbers because some of those listings are for things like Nardi wheels. Either way, there's just about a 40k floor now provided the car isn't an absolute basket case, with a ceiling upwards of 400k provided the right two people are in the room. For non-original but restored cars, the likes of Mechatronik have shown the sky is the limit, with their cars selling new in the mid-$300ks.

Someone did pay these figures for these cars. In fact, quite a few people. We don't turn up our noses at what our cars sell for in the UK or Japan (huge sums!), or what a 280SL with let's call it a Country Club Spec might sell for in the USA. Like anything, these things are worth what people are willing to pay, and yes, it always feels weird to see things that one was so used to being worth X now being worth Y. I think of real estate in my area that was worth $300k until 2018 or so for an okayish house, where now an uncleared lot might be $1mn on the same street, and with rates being way higher, too...

So I think BaT is a good place for determining a BaT value. They don't always take everything, though. But if I was trying to determine the value of something, I'd look at as many sources as possible, especially sources closer to home. A car already registered and driven in California is typically worth more out there, for instance. Look at Classic.com as well as active listings for cars closer to you -- there are ways to see metadata on a webpage showing when a page was created/last updated, which will give you an idea how long a thing has been for sale. Some of these cars sit on sites for a very long time. Also, sometimes the local market is even better than BaT, like here in Vero! There are people here who can't or refuse to use the internet or do any research and just sign a cheque for whatever pretty thing they see, and plenty of people here make a living off of ignoramuses like that (just look at Rosner Motorsports in Vero Beach, as well as their poor sell-through rate on BaT...)

[mdsalemi]

I guess the bottom line is:

NEVER buy or attempt to buy a Pagoda on BaT. You will pay too much and be bidding against people who know nothing.
ALWAYS sell your Pagoda on BaT since you'll get the highest price. Be sure to take 1,000 photos and be ready for the dozens of trolls asking for the 1001th photo, you know the one you forgot to take...

 

[Pinder]

I sold my 1969 280SL a few years ago on BAT. It does take time to take good pictures and also respond to questions. I did find it to be an enjoyable experience.  I think you get a good price if you present the car with quality pictures and show its good points and point out any defects etc.  Its almost a spectator sport on the final day / hours and minutes. 

Regards

 Pinder

[john.mancini]

Michael, I love your posts. They often bring a smile to my face