Author Topic: Need steering advice  (Read 6702 times)

waltklatt

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA
  • Posts: 1131
Need steering advice
« on: August 11, 2005, 12:54:21 »
I have a bit too much play in my steering on the 1967 230SL with the diesel motor.
It has power steering hookup and that works great, but when driving the car wanders a bit.  I tightened up the linkages and replaced the completely disintegrated subframe mounts.  There is still a bit too much play for my comfort and wonder if the two bushings at the base of the steering column where it joins the steering box could be bad.
I suspect they are.  How does one change them out?  Remove the box or leave in place and remove the column from inside?  I have another column with good bushings on it and a manual box and think it's easier to remove the box.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Walter Klatt
1967 230SL-diesel
1963 230SL-for sale

jeffc280sl

  • Guest
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2005, 15:42:58 »
There is an adjustment for steering play on/in the power steering box.  I'm not sure what the spec is for this adjustment.  If I remember correctly here is a locking cap nut and regular nuton the lower part of the box facing the engine hood.  These nuts secure a spring loaded shaft that is adjusted up and down to fix steering box play.  The adjustment is actually made by turning the disc which sits beneath the nuts described above.  The disc is threaded and mates with the threaded shaft.  There is an o ring around the edge of the disc to seal in power steering fluid.  Adjustments can be made by turning the disk while holding the threaded shaft in place.  There are two tooling holes in the disc for this purpose.  I'm sure MB has a special tool for this purpose.  I think spring tension can be increased by truning the disc clockwise which has the effect of raising the threaded shaft.  Maybe Arthur, Joe or Dan can confirm my comments.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7217
  • Benz Dr.
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2005, 16:23:37 »
That sounds right. I've rarely ever needed to adjust them as they either work or they don't. Timely fluid changes make a big difference as far as steering box life goes. Remember to change the small filter in the bottom of the fluid canister while you're at it.

 I think you turn the screw out until it starts to lock up and then turn it back in a bit and lock it in place. I do many diesel steering boxes this way and it seems to work. You need the steering centred or it will bind up going through the central position. Try it and if it's too tight back it off a bit. If you can't get all the play out, the box may be worn beyond it's limits.
 I've never rebuilt one. Looks like a ton of parts in there and not much fun. Any old sedan with power steering should use the same box with a resonable chance it would work OK. Drop the box and leave the steering colum in place.
 The two plastic bushings will fall apart but the play at the wheel will be very high - maybe 1/2 turn before you have anything. Normally you can get the steering wheel play down to almost none at all. Too me, that's normal.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

A Dalton

  • Guest
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2005, 21:45:53 »
Before adjusting any of the box adjusters  , you want to check all front end components and adjust the front wheel bearings.
 There are two  box adjustments . One is the block pressure adjustment [ the top screw/lock assembly] and the other is the end float of the worm gear assembly.
 The worm  end float has to be checked before setting the block pressure , as attempting to take play out of a box with block pressure only when one has worm gear end float is likened to adjusting your wheel bearings after you set your chassis toe alignment ..
 The best/recommended way to do these are with the box out  , as it can then be set to proper torque load specs , but if one pays attention , you can get it in car..
 The first spec to look for is 25mm max movement at SW circumference
before output shaft [ pitman arm] starts to rotate.
 To eliminate front end component wear , it is easiest if you have someone turn SW back/forth in decreasing amounts til you relay to him that there is no longer any output shaft movement .. this will be the actual box play and should not excede the 25mm [ 1'] at SW circumference. If this is in spec. , your problem is not in the box, but rather the front end components or chassis alignment. Once that is established and you find the 25mm is exceded and is the results of the box , you now want to check for worm gear end float.  You can install a centering tool in the hole of the hex head plug on top of box [ to the left of block presure adjuster] and set the tool into the central detent of the worm assembly.  This locks it and then you can see if there is end play in the shaft .  The end float is spec .00mm - .01, so you can see they do not want any, but they do want the worm to still be free to turn .Again , those are bench specs.. you just want to see if the shaft has visible end play..
 The adjustment on this is done by tightening the ring with a pin wrench and lock nut  , which sets the end load and float on the worm.
 If there is no discernable end float, you can continue on to adjusting the block pressure . This adjuster increases pressure on the block  when it is screwed out. Again, this can be exactly done  on a bench to spec of 1.75mkg - 2.25 mkg  torque force required to turn the shaft throughtout it full arc , with the pressure dropping as the movement goes through the center position.  That is what allows the SW to automatically return to center after a r/l turn. Again , box out/bench talk... ..for in car, you can just make 1/8" tightening increments ..
 I recommend taking the car for a trial run after each incremental adjustment and try both r/l turns with attention paid to the SW returning to center . If you go to far , you will notice the cars ability to return deminish as pressure block adjustment becomes too high.
With the box on a bench,one can set these specs w/torque readings
to perfection, but .. seldom does anyone do that [maybe a few]

 Lastly, and not pertaining to the SW play .. your condition of having to put several steering inputs at speed can be a rear end suspension problem.. these are also often overlooked/ not considered , but they do steer the car on straight away travel .. suspect here are both upper/lower hanger bushings and improper axle cross strut axle centering adjustment/rubber bushings... test checking for excessive torque steer will be an indication of a problem  back there....
 I am sure there will be other replies..clearing the mud up....:)

Benz Dr.

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Canada, ON, Port Lambton
  • Posts: 7217
  • Benz Dr.
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2005, 22:21:07 »
That's very good info. It's probably beyond the ability of most people to be able to do this but it's well done and acurate.
I've also found that the idler arm bushing can also steer the car all over the place going through a corner should it be worn. My assumption is that everyone will have the front end in good condition before they decide the box has problems.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

A Dalton

  • Guest
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2005, 22:37:54 »
Yes, idler bushes..they can raise hell.
 That is why I recommended watching the output shaft for rotational start to pin-point actual box condition..
Still best to bench adjust to specs. .regardless

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4549
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2005, 17:49:39 »
quote:
Originally posted by waltklatt

.... wonder if the two bushings at the base of the steering column where it joins the steering box could be bad.

Yes, they could be.  My steering was very sloppy on-center, at least 1 inch of play.  Ended up one busing was a little deformed/worn and the other was completely gone!

quote:
How does one change them out?

From a questionable memory:  There is a cover plate screwed to the floor pan at the bottom of the steering column.  Remove those bolts and move the plate to access the collar connecting the box to the column.  This is where the busings reside.  Support the box (I tied nylon twine to the brake booster braket) and seperate them.  Replace bushings and put it all back together.  Maybe 2 hours work for a complete novice fumbling through for the first time.  Maybe less than 30 minutes for an experienced mechanic.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

George Davis

  • Guest
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2005, 08:49:51 »
Holy Ackerman, Batsman!  And thank you, Arthur, for your write up on adjusting the steering!

You inspired me to give it a go, and between your write up and the BBB, I got it done last weekend.  All done in the car, of course, I'm way too lazy to pull the box out, but even though I only drove it around the block, the difference is very noticable.  I could tell the steering was better just backing out of the driveway.

After much mucking around I concluded there was no end-play in the worm (thank God), so went on to the block adjustment.  The hardest part there was making a tool to fit the flats on the adjusting screw that I could turn with a torque wrench (I ground a slot in the head of a 5/16 screw, turns out the flats on the hex are almost exactly 7 mm wide).

This was a very worthwhile adjustment, and if anyone has any doubts about their steering, I highly recommend doing it.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4549
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2005, 20:48:48 »
Walter,
Is your steering problem fixed?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Chad

  • Guest
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2005, 20:54:36 »
I feel inspired to tackle my own steering from this valuable thread!!! Thanks.

-CD-
1967 230SL, 113.042 10
1983 300TDT, 123.193

Chad

  • Guest
Re: Need steering advice
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2005, 20:55:23 »
Walter, did you put an OM617 in your pagoda??

-CD-
1967 230SL, 113.042 10
1983 300TDT, 123.193