right headlight goes out when selecting highbeams

[Ed Fisher]

All:

The subject describes that the passenger side headlight (euro) goes out entirely when I click on the highbeams.  Not a bulb, cleaned the grounds in the buckets, any ideas?

Also, after installing a new starter, the intermittent starter drag still occurs.  Body to engine ground looked good, as did battery to engine.  Any ideas here?

After these niggling things get sorted out it will be off to get the bushings freshened up, I hope.

Thanks,

Ed Fisher
Dallas, Tx

[JimVillers]

Check Fuse #9 for connectivity.  It is a good practice to rotate your fuses every once in a while.  The fuse ends can get corrosion and break the circuit.

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor

[mdsalemi]

Regarding "starter drag", do you mean the starter not entirely disengaging after starting?  If so, is it a Bosch remanufactured unit?  I had trouble with the starter NEVER disengaging when a 3rd party solenoid was used.  Switching to Bosch solenoid solved the problem.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[A Dalton]

To add to Jims post.
  If it is a fuse #9  connection problem , [rather than a wiring problem/break] , you will also notice  that the High Beam indicator is also not working .
 **This test is only if it is passenger side out.

[Ed Fisher]

Thanks guys.  I will check fuse #9 as soon as possible.

Regarding starter drag:  It is a Bosche unit.  The starter drag occurs when first turning the key to the start position.  Not every time, but often the engine will turn over very slowly, then without moving the position of the key it will start spinning over at a normal turn rate (as in nice charge on the battery, good connections, etc.).  Once in awhile turning the key has no effect, as in there is no sound from the starter, then after turning the key off and on 3 times it spins normally.  

I sure appreciate y'alls help.

Ed (wishing that I had been in Blacklick with the gang.  Joe's work area looks absolutely like heaven from here.  I lived in Ohio for the first 26 years of my life)

[A Dalton]

There is a possibility that you have a poor contactor in the starter section of the ign sw.
 There is an easy terminal location that you can test  that circuit without going to the back of the ign sw.  Simply jumper wire from Bat+ to terminal "G" on the TTS sw [ This is the 2 wire sw on the eng., above the FI pump..has a blk boot on it] . The terminals are marked W and G.
 This is just  quick test for ign sw .If same problem still exist with this test, then you have to get down to the starter for further test.
 Post what you find ..

[Ed Fisher]

Thank you for the clue.  Will post findings.
P.S.  I am up to "regular" poster now, aspiring to be a "gold" member like all of my online heros here.

Ed

[Ed Fisher]

Good morning:

Fuse #9 was blown.  Have not gotten a replacement yet, but will soon.  I searched for 'fuses' and did not see a chart that explains the fuses, as in useages and amperages.  Is there one out there that I missed with my searching?.  I did manage to find that fuse #3 deals with the transmission kickdown though, so I will look at that too.

Mr. Dalton:  I did not see the switch bolted to the engine near the injector pump that you alerted me to, but that is not surprising since there are relays and switches all over that do not appear to be in their original location.  The car had an engine replacement at some time in the past and did not have detailed reassembly.  Do you per chance have a picture of said switch (TTS) so that I could try to match it?  I looked at wiring coming from firewall, since it should be in-line with ignition switch to no avail.  

Thank  you all again for the help.

Ed Fisher
Dallas, Tx

[A Dalton]

Ed
 The fuse chart should be on the inside of the fuse cover .. check there for fuse locations.
 On the TTS , it is in a coolant housing near the pump , off the block... but , if there has been some serious wiring and relay changes , I would not use that location for starter jumper as I recommended until you find what has been changed/modified , or just plain messed with on the wiring..I assumed you had an original wired chassis and my wiring test/mods only use strict compliance with stock schematics.
 Get a schmatic and do some tracing.. someone here will have one..I am sure.

[Ed Fisher]

Can someone please tell me the correct amperage for fuse #9.  8 amps is blowing consistently when pulling the flash to pass stalk or by selecting high beams on the floor switch.  This in turn takes out fuse #10 (dash lights etc.).  Thanks.

Ed

[graphic66]

On a 230SL all fuses except  #2 and #6 are 8 amp. You must have a short somewhere. Fuse #10 is the left high beam. Fuse #9 is the right high beam and high beam control light. The headlight flasher is fuse #1. Fuse #7 is the insrument lights, tailights, parking lights, trunk light, and identification light. Start pulling fuses and seeing what runs what. Someone may have jumped wires and screwed everthing up in general.

[Ed Fisher]

Thanks for the reply.  I asked about amperage because when I went to replace fuse #9 it was blue instead of white.  Also, until recently my high beams were working well.  It was on one late night jaunt where I was using them on and off frequently they quit.  I did not lose interior gauge lights then though. Something amiss I guess, any guesses out there?  The good news is that fog lights both sides work now (loose connection in socket).

Ed

[Ed Fisher]

O.K. guys here is the scoop.  Right high beam blows fuses whether using the stalk or the foot switch.  I ohmed out the foot switch and it looks good.  I looked under the dash, but couldn't even see the back of the gauges.  It looks as though the high beam wire at the headlight has a short to ground, but I can’t tell where the wires are routed.  Do they go under the air cleaner housing?  Before I start tearing stuff apart I wanted to ask y’all.  The neighboring fuse also blows, and the dash lights don’t work after a switch actuation.  Thanks for any help.

Ed in Dallas

[waltklatt]

Ed,
I believe the wire for the headlight runs under the battery on the left side of the engine bay and then runs in front of the radiator on the cross member beam, under the air cleaner canister and then up into the rubber hose for the headlight bucket.  Mind you the entire length of this multiple wire strand is protected by a heavy nylon covering.  To get to the wires inside, slit the covering carefully with a straight single sided razor.
Most likely your wires are pinched by the radiator.
Walter Klatt
1967 230SL-diesel
1963 230SL-for sale

[Ed Fisher]

Walter:  

Thank you very much, this is very helpful.  Will post back after the weekend where I have hopefully found a problem.

All the best.

Ed Fisher

[jeffc280sl]

Hi Ed,

Sorry to hear about your lighting troubles.  Seems like you had a lot of wiring issues coming into play all at the same time.  Fog lights, hi-beam and starter.  Maybe fixing one caused a problem in another.  Hard to say at this point.  Let's start with a question.

Do you have a wiring diagram for the 230SL?  If not, I can send you one.

I'm trying to follow this thread and the problems as they came up.  Initially you said the right high beam (after working fine) did not illuminate when you used the foot switch to turn it on.  To me this points to a loose connection of fuse 9.  It's not uncommon for this to happen.  Had the same problem on my car and fuse 9 was dirty.

I think that after this was noticed you worked on the fog lights and got them working.  You also did some work on your starter.

You now say fuse 9 and 10 blow when you turn the high beams on either by using the footswitch or flash function on the turn signal stalk. The dash light fail at the same time.  

Is this pretty much the situation?  If not please correct.

I would like to see if we can determine if you have a power to ground short in you lighting system.  Disconnect the negative battery terminal.  I understand you have an ohm meter.  I propose you remove the high beam bulb from the left and right headlights.  Next I would unplug the center cluster and turn signal stalk connectors under the dash near the steering column.  When the bulbs and connectors are disconnected all designed connections between power and ground via the hi-beam headlight bulb and hi beam cluster lamp are removed.  Also remove fuse 9 and 10.  You should now take your ohm meter and connect it between the upper fuse connector for 9 and ground.  Do the same for the lower fuse connector and ground.  Do the same thing to fuse 10.  While your at it place the probes on the lower fuse connections for 9 and 10 and then the upper fuse connections for 9 and 10.  What are your readings?  It may sound like a lot of work but its not so bad.  Anyway its just my suggestion.

Best of luck.



Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[Ed Fisher]

Jeff (and anyone else reading)

Thanks, not only for replying but also for staying up with it this long.  I have a wiring diagram in my big blue book.  While it doesn’t have the 230sl specifically, it has diagrams that are close, at least in the lighting section.  If you have one for the 64 230sl specifically, I would appreciate it.

You had the series of events pretty close to correct.  Replaced starter, no fix for initial drag when turning key (still not fixed after checking grounds and connections incidentally).  High beam on right side quit working one night while out using the foot switch on dark road (had used it probably 6 times before it quit).  While fussing with that I fixed the fog light, which was bulb connection in socket.

After polling the forum here, I thought I had a dirty fuse at #9.  When I went to investigate, I noted #9 was blown.  It was a 25 amp stuck in there by the way.  All fuses have been cleaned, as have the clips to retain the fuses.  8 amp fuses, as well as 25 amp fuses blow immediately when actuating the high beams now.  I have taken out the individual connectors in the headlight socket and cleaned them thoroughly with 1000 grit sandpaper.  All grounds are good in the headlight buckets, as they were previously cleaned another time when troubleshooting turn signals (which now are not working, again, as well).  The highbeam wire clip, on the socket for the right headlight shows ground when measured, while the left side does not.  This makes sense since the fuse blows immediately I thought it must be a short to ground.  If I unplug the right headlight, no fuses blow when selecting high beams.  I ohmed out the foot switch and it looks good.

Regarding your suggestion of pulling things out of the circuit and measuring, and of this I can’t be sure, but it seems that I was measuring about .5 ohms on every bottom fuse terminal when I was checking it the other day.  However, as I said I can’t be sure at this point.

I’ll do some more work this weekend (hopefully), and try to nail some of this down.  The weekend may be spent in volunteer efforts for the people coming in from the Gulf Coast though, as all else pales in priorities.

Thanks again,

Ed Fisher
Dallas, Tx

[jeffc280sl]

Hi Ed,

The 230SL wiring diagram is the same as the 280SL as far as the lighting goes.  As you know fuse 9 and 10 are linked on the footswitch side of the fuse circuit.  If you only blew fuse 9 that tells us that the problem is in one of the 2 circuits leaving fuse 9.  One circuit goes directly to the right side hi-beam and the other to the hi-beam lamp in the center cluster.  The + hi-beam circuit on the right side will show a ground because of the hi-beam lamp in the center cluster.  One side of this lamp is fuse 9 while the other side is ground.  As long as the bulb is in place you will see a ground through its filament wire.  Thye hi-beam circuit on the left side will not show a ground because it is connected to the wiper stalk.  In the off or on position the wiper stalk does not show ground. I would still like to see the cluster connector disconnected and then a measurement for the right hi-beam as requested yesterday.

Good luch this weekend with your efforts!

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

[Ed Fisher]

Well gents (and ladies who may be so inclined) I found the problem with the high beam selection throwing a fuse.  It looks like the larger radiator that was installed in the car caused some rocking of the driver’s side radiator support when the hood was opened too high.  This apparently caused the radiator support to become detached and I can see where someone reattached, with a weld, the support to body.  The wires beneath the support were melted.  I have spent considerable time unwrapping the harness all the way to the firewall, and splicing and rebuilding the harness.  Why all the way to the firewall you may ask?  Close inspection of the wires individually showed that the insulation had gotten hot away from the fault, so I went back until I was sure that I had every wire in good shape.  Hook-splice solder joints and heat shrink tubing with correct gauge wire has me back in business.  Thank you all for your replies, especially Walter and Jeff for cluing me in to the fact that ground reading on the passenger side high beam was not a problem and Walter for telling me where the wires ran.

All is well now, in that all lamps illuminate when selected with no problems, except the turn signals do not flash.  Is the “can” under the dash near the hood release on a 1964 230sl?  I ask because if so, it does not look like any other that I have ever seen (cylindrical and ‘chromish’); not that this would surprise me.  Are there any options on replacement parts?

Now I am looking at the front crank seal while I am in there.  I have read the search engine and now must decide whether to go after that as well.  Seems a shame not to, but there is some beautiful weather coming up.

Another question; what transmission fluid are you folks using?  I read through the archives but didn’t get a good definitive answer.  Are Dextron(s) ATF all O.K?  Nothing strange like a type F (as happened to be what was called for on a 1977 Toyota Celica that I had owned).

As always, thank you very much for any insights.

Ed Fisher
Dallas, Tx

[jeffc280sl]

Congrats Ed!  Way to stay with the problem.  After a couple of days to reflect you will be up for an even tougher job.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed