Shelby dumps SAAC! Our forum's future?

[France]

Hi Guys,

Just now He Who Must Be Obeyed pointed me to the March issue of Classic & Sports Car, p.9, which has a disturbing article about Carroll Shelby's broken relationship with a huge club, the Shelby American Automobile Club (5000 members strong).  They have received five terminating demands from Shelby's lawayers, one of which would confiscate all the products the club has ever produced.  

I reiterate a question I asked when I first joined--how do we protect our intellectual property and other assets in case the Classic Center (or Mercedes itself) decides to move against our Pagoda forum? We certainly must be very diligent with plastering our copyright all over everything we produce.  We should also do a trademark search to see what Mercedes and its Center actually owns; they could conceivably claim that SL and W113 are their property...and if they want to crank up returns, our gorgeous Manual might be a tempting little target.

What sayest you?

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota FL; Alsace France; Switzerland
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...stable now including a 92 911 Carrera 2 Tiptronic

[Richard Madison]

Trice:

I suspect the motives of Carol Shelby and Mercedes are not the same. Mr. Shelby is protecting the property rights he believes he has to the name and design of the Shelby cars. Why he chose to attack his base of fans is a mystery to me.

Mercedes has an interest in keeping its name and products in front of the public and MB seems quite tolerant of those who use MB marks or symbols as long as the users do not claim ownership of the marks.

I think a few here have a spinning Tristar in their signature. This might be a copyright violation by some interpretation but does not seem objectionable to Mercedes.

As to this website and Group, Mercedes was informed about our existence when we first requested recognition as an official Mercedes club.
MB has known about us for several years and they have never objected to anything on our website.

Our Home Page states that we are not part of MB; we should be careful not to quote long passages from MB publications; not to use any MB marks or property for commercial gain; not claim ownership of items we post that are owned by others.

Also, I believe we have formal permission to use items from the MB Classic Archive in our publications.

Richard M

[cth350]

Mercedes goes to great lengths to protect copyright material from infringement, but they also go to great lengths to support clubs like ours.  If we are formally recognized by mercedes, that comes with permission to publish just about anything in a members-only area.  They are willing to protect their rights and share generously as well.

-CTH

[JimVillers]

I have found MB very supportive of club organizations like ours and would be more supportive when we become more of a "grounded" club verses predomically a "virtual" club.  I have also not known MB to pursue non-commercial uses of their copyrights for predominantly personal use.  They get very excited if any of their copyrights are used or represented commercially (which we don't do).

Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, MGB 5-Speed, Boxster S

[ja17]

Hello,

The Mercedes Benz Club of America operates under guidelines from Mercedes-Benz in reguards to usage of the name and the "Star" logo. The MBCA cannot use the "Star" logo by itself, but must clearly contain "Mercedes Club of America" in the logo graphic.  

I think that  Mercedes is tolerant, as Richard states, when the purpose is not for profit.
On the other hand I know some independant shops who have been sent legal letters from Mercedes for having the "Three Pointed Star Logo" on their business cards!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[glennard]

Shelby has a case with some merit-at least.  As I have said before, MB is fortunate to have us.  We provide something(s) they never could - undying support, free publicity, product life,- on and on as we all know.  I don't think it is in MBs interest to stiffle us.  If they try, we'll all crash our Pagodas into the local dealership.

[abe280SL]

Just have the site originate from China....you are immune from copy rights there.
abe

abe
1968 280SL Auto
Signal Red w Beige Int

[glennard]

They just transposed the numbers to the highest value.

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Ask me about MB and copyright lawyers. They will and DO go after you for the most stupid things.
I can use Mercedes - Benz on my cards but it has to be in the same font as all the other printing. You can't use the star on anything you have ( which makes sense ) or use the the word Benz or Mercedes in your name. A lot of places do and they all end up getting a letter from MB copy lawyers.
Thing is, years later they're still bugging be for using the word '' Benz '' in my old biz name. They even went after me because someone else had 6 year old info on a web site that I have no control over. That's where I drew the line - it's harassment at this point.

The Classic Centers? Don't even get mer started. They're not our friends even though some would try to tell you otherwise. Remember, they're just another MB dealership that happens to have old car parts. Is your regular dealer your friend?

A year ago a 107 rear trunk floor was about 265.00  Now it's 625.00 and it's a CC part.....



Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[Chad]

I like that theory, but that would have made it $652.00

quote:Originally posted by glennard

They just transposed the numbers to the highest value.

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Ask me about MB and copyright lawyers. They will and DO go after you for the most stupid things.
I can use Mercedes - Benz on my cards but it has to be in the same font as all the other printing. You can't use the star on anything you have ( which makes sense ) or use the the word Benz or Mercedes in your name. A lot of places do and they all end up getting a letter from MB copy lawyers.
Thing is, years later they're still bugging be for using the word '' Benz '' in my old biz name. They even went after me because someone else had 6 year old info on a web site that I have no control over. That's where I drew the line - it's harassment at this point.

The Classic Centers? Don't even get mer started. They're not our friends even though some would try to tell you otherwise. Remember, they're just another MB dealership that happens to have old car parts. Is your regular dealer your friend?

A year ago a 107 rear trunk floor was about 265.00  Now it's 625.00 and it's a CC part.....



Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

1967 230SL

[glennard]

quote:Originally posted by glennard

They just transposed the numbers to the higher value.   check!

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Ask me about MB and copyright lawyers. They will and DO go after you for the most stupid things.
I can use Mercedes - Benz on my cards but it has to be in the same font as all the other printing. You can't use the star on anything you have ( which makes sense ) or use the the word Benz or Mercedes in your name. A lot of places do and they all end up getting a letter from MB copy lawyers.
Thing is, years later they're still bugging be for using the word '' Benz '' in my old biz name. They even went after me because someone else had 6 year old info on a web site that I have no control over. That's where I drew the line - it's harassment at this point.

The Classic Centers? Don't even get mer started. They're not our friends even though some would try to tell you otherwise. Remember, they're just another MB dealership that happens to have old car parts. Is your regular dealer your friend?

A year ago a 107 rear trunk floor was about 265.00  Now it's 625.00 and it's a CC part.....



Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[john.mancini]

I met Shelby a few years back.  He personally autographed the glove box doors on two GT350's I once owned. (I can't beleieve I sold those cars!!!) He had mentioned to a group of us at a SAAC meeting that Ford had owned the rights to everything Shelby. His goal was to get as much out of his name as he could because he felt cheated by Ford in the 60's. He stopped making Ford Shelbys in 1967. All GT's from 68 and on were built by Ford, not Shelby.  His relationship with Ford deteriorated, until now.
The recent excitement in the Shelby name has been very good to him. No one should profit from his name other than Shelby himself, and his attorneys!
I should mention that after his heart transplant he has been very generous to the AHA.
Pagoda69

[Bob G ✝︎]

On Sunday I went to a Porsche swap meet. Very interesting. Some of the vendors are reproducing Porsche tool kits and other parts. I wonder how this sets with Porsche of North American and Germany.
 
Also I don't know what caused Shelby to attack his fan base but that move could cost more of a slump in sales of classic Shelby Ford Mustangs at auctions and new and product sales. I suspect that once GM introduces the Camaro, we will see a real domestic sales war where Ford dealers will not have the upper edge to charge the outrageous markups on limited edition Mustangs. Hopefully the customer will rule instead of the dealer.

Back to our orginal conversation. I do not think Mercedes-Benz cares as long as their logo and name is left out per our web page and group. SL113 group, 190SL group, M100 group!
What disturbs me is the lack of caring that has given Mercedes-Benz its success here in the USA by catering more to deep pockets than  maintaining interaction with clubs like our own. A little more help guys not deep pockets. I guess that's where the term "Mercy Benz" comes from.
Bob Geco

[mdsalemi]

Well, with all due respect to Dr. Benz, I don't think it is quite exactly as bad as he says.  There are 70 international clubs recognized by MB worldwide, not just the few mentioned.

http://www.mercedes-benz-clubs.com/intro/templates/index.php?language=en&organisation=001

And it might take someone on our board, particularly someone in Europe who speaks the language, to investigate.  Note that MBCA is NOT part of this recognized affiliation with the MBClub Card it predates this and for the moment, as chosen to not have the card as it costs a few dollars.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[Benz Dr.]

What I meant is that MBCCI only recognises a few model specific clubs. They do recognise all sorts of country specific clubs but in that case it's all the same thing for the most part.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[France]

Hi Guys,

Well if I get some time after Amelia, I may try a TM search in the USPTO, but then we'd have to search the European Patent Office too. All I am saying is, let's keep all this in mind as we create useful material.  I am not very sure how much control or influence MB has over the Center; they have separate management and are conjoined at the Board level, I believe.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder seat
Sarasota FL; Alsace France; Switzerland
Think of your Pagoda as a woman with a past...stable now including a 92 911 Carrera 2 Tiptronic

[Peter van Es]

I'm a member of the Dutch Mercedes Benz Veterans Club (MBVC = Classic cars, over 25 years old), which is an official MB affiliated club.

Both Cees Klumper and I have been involved in this organisation, and as a result know a little about Mercedes Benz policies on classic car clubs (although Cees knows a lot more).

Basically, MB favours to have a single, real Mercedes Benz Classic Car Club per country. So not virtual, not one type, but all old cars. This gives the club mass, and presence. Only in Germany, with their large number of type clubs, do they accept more than one club.

In Holland, where there are a number of clubs, they decided to create a federation of clubs, to be recognised by MB. All clubs who are members of the federation pay a little overhead. As a result all its members get an official MB membership card and 6 times a year subscription to the Mercedes-Benz Classic magazine. That alone, believe me, is well worth the contribution that clubs pay to a federation and in turn Mercedes Benz.

The membership card offers a discount on entry to the MB museum... but I can't remember what else...

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.