Author Topic: NO 1ST GEAR WHILE IN 4TH (Read 11006 times)

james · « **on:** July 14, 2006, 09:21:11 »

HI
I HAVE DISCOVERED THAT MY 230SL AUTO, IS NOT USING 1ST GEAR WHEN I PUT IT IN 4TH TO DRIVE NORMALLY.
WHEN I PUT IT IN #2(ON THE PLATE) IT SHIFTS FROM 1ST TO 2ND FINE AND I HAVE GOOD ACCELERATION. BUT WHEN I PUT IT IN #4(ON THE PLATE) IT STARTS OFF IN 2ND AND POOR ACCELERATION.
IS THIS A SIMPLE ADJUSTMENT? AND HOW
THANKS JIM

Jim

Cortez-Campos · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2006, 11:12:32 »

Hi James

No it is normal, it only use 1. gear if you floor it.

Try that, and you will discover that it has an ok cceleration

)

Christian

280 SL 1969 anthracite 172, with red inteior.

rwmastel · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2006, 13:30:27 »

Yes, it's operating as designed. As Christian points out, put the pedal to the floor and you will activate the kick-down switch located on the floor. This gives 1st gear regardless of gear lever position.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

james · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2006, 14:02:22 »

Boy this is scary? If the car is on a slight uphill the acceleration is bad. If I start on a slight down hill it is fine. If I use the lever, then it uses 1st nicely. can I use the level to shift all the time? Maybe a conversion to 4spd is a good thing.?
Jim

Jim

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2006, 14:35:03 »

Conversion to manual should not be necessary. I don't know about your rear differential ratio off-hand (US versions typically had a lower = higher acceleration differential ratio) but on my car (automatic), 1st gear, when I engage it, lasts only for about 2 seconds before it shifts to 2nd, and for that reason, and because the aceleration is just fine (even though I have a low-ratio 3.69 differential) when pulling away in 2nd, I never use 1st. So ... I'm thinking maybe your engine is a bit tired. Have you checked the compression lately?

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

J. Huber · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2006, 15:28:45 »

In my case, it is only rarely that my car gets caught in "low acceleration" situation (but it does happen once in a while.)

If I am climbing a moderate hill, I tend to drop to third just to stay out of fourth which might labor on the incline. If I am in a steep start-off situation, I drop to 2. These times are few and far between. Generally, a third or fourth gear start-off has plenty of power for me.

James
63 230SL

ja17 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2006, 17:09:47 »

Hello,

These are shiftable automatics. You can become quite good at manual shifting up and down between 3 and 4 if you practice.

On the other hand these cars are quite powerful for their age, weight and size. As mentioned a well tuned W113 automatic will often times "cherp" the tires between the 2nd and 3rd gear shift ! If you are down on power, check your ignition timing, vacuume cell on the distributor, check to make sure you are getting full throttle when pedal is to the metal (quite often not getting full throttle). Make sure that the fuel injection and fuel pressure and volume is good and the injection system in correct adjustment.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

psmith · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2006, 23:58:42 »

All Mercedes automatics started in 2nd up until about 1990, I think. Joe is right, these cars are much more fun to drive if you drive it like a stick. Put the lever in 2 and it will start in 1st. The shift to second happens automatically, but how fast it shifts depends on the weight of your foot. Once it's in second, wait until at least 3500 rpm to shift to third, and the same again for fourth. For most around town driving, I shift into 3rd at a stop and let the car do the 2-3 shift on it's own, but I decide when to shift to fourth. The shift points vary depending on manifold vacuume, and for my car and the weight of my foot, it seems to shift too soon on it's own.

Pete S.

james · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2006, 13:49:03 »

thanks for all your advice on my trans. I guess I will live with it and I have been using the manual stick quite often. (fun) as I tune the car closer to perfection I am sure it will get better. thanks again Jim

Jim

hands_aus · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2006, 04:48:22 »

Jim
It was stated earlier that you only have to floor the accelerator pedal to engage the downshift function.
If the car is stationary this will start the car off in 1st gear.
To downshift while driving, you do the same thing... pedal to the floor, the lower gear is selected and away you go.
eg lever at No. 4, 3rd gear is chosen

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

Ben · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2006, 08:04:45 »

I have recently aquired a W111 280SE Coupe [:0]and as my 230SL is manual I wondered about the auto in it. I knew they started in 2nd,unless manually placed in "2" and my kickdown works in all gears except it wont operate from a standstill !

Whats the cause of this ?

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

rwmastel · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2006, 11:16:03 »

Ben,

Maybe your 280SE is "new" enough that it starts in 1st geat regardless of gear selector position. I believe the 280 sedans got a newer transmission mid-life while the 280 SL kept the same transmission to the end of production. Would this newer transmission on the sedans be a first gear start?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

Ben · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2006, 05:03:53 »

Hi Rodd,
I dont know whether its a newer type 'box, its an early '68 car but it deffo starts off in 2nd. there is a noticeable difference if I select "2", it gets 1st then 2nd very soon after !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

n/a · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2006, 13:13:57 »

I drive my auto like a stick and it is fine and enjoyable. Real help came from one of Joe Alexander's posts regarding a "clunking" I got when slowing to a light. Thight it was a CV problem. In actuality, it was a disconnected and broken switch on the air intake butterfly valve that changes modulator pressure on the transmission when dropping down to idle. Only problem now is a rather hard 2-3 upshift...can't figure that one out yet...Joe, you out there? Any ideas?
Thanks.
Regards,
Joe Bango

Mike Hughes · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2006, 14:41:08 »

I recently read a reprint of an early 70's Car & Driver article about one man's ownership experiences after three years with a 250SL Automatic that he bought new. The funniest (and truest!) line in the whole piece was his description of the acceleration achieved when flooring the throttle from rest with the gear lever in 3 or 4. He said that the effect was akin to "flushing a toilet."

- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2006, 14:01:35 »

Yesterday, I decided (for the first time in years) to engage first by putting the automatic selector in '2' rather than by flooring it (applying kick-down), and it stays in first gear muuuuuch longer this way; even applying only about 3/4 throttle, 1st went all the way to 5,000 RPM's before moving to 2nd. So acceleration is much brisker this way, than taking off in 3 or 4. Now I know why a fair number of us drive the automatic like a stick, it really is just about the same thing as a manual transmission this way. Nice discovery, after 7 years of ownership!

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

Sven · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2006, 08:56:54 »

My kick-down switch/mechanism has been acting up of late. When it starts in 1st, the change to 2nd (@3,5000 rpm) always chirps the tires and is quite rough (much, much, much more rough than compared to 2nd to 3rd - wife won't ride in it when acting up). Is this normal?

ja17 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2006, 17:14:44 »

Hello Sven,

It sounds like the kickdown switch is stuck down. Try some penetrant oil or unplug the switch to temporarily solve the problem until the switch is fixed or replaced.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

Sven · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2006, 21:22:07 »

Thanks Joe. I am not convinced the kick-down switch is completely at fault. Driving today, I was careful not to even come close to touching the kick-down switch and I physically pulled the switch out to full (normal) position. Even so, today it was probably 50-50 between whether the car started in 1st or 2nd. In fact, I can tell whether the car will start in 1st or 2nd before the car even comes to stop. I will either get the clunk of the 3rd to 2nd downshift (followed by 2nd gear start from stop) or the smooth downshifts all the way to 1st (followed by 1st gear start from stop). It seems to shift properly (start in 2nd) only after a good warm up period. Does this still sound like the kick-down switch? I read your reply yesterday on the other thread and saw where the switch can be unplugged, just haven't had the time to get up under the car. I guess that would be the sure fired test.

thanks again for all your wisdom

ja17 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2006, 22:19:36 »

Hello Sven,

It sounds like you need to check the switch on the intake venturi. Are you familiar with the procedure to make sure that the intake venturi is closing all the way? If not we will walk you through it. This will cause clunky downshifts if it is not adjusted properly.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

Sven · « **Reply #20 on:** July 25, 2006, 06:44:50 »

Joe,

No familiarity what so ever with the intake venturi (couldn't spot it in a lineup). Any and all help and advise would be much appreciated.

I've had the car for over two years after buying it from 7-8 years of being parked. It really has only been in the last few weeks that it has been roadworthy and used daily. With no car mechanic skills to speak of, working on the car has been alot of fun. I am very mechanical, just no practice. thanks again

rwmastel · « **Reply #21 on:** July 25, 2006, 08:48:00 »

Sven,

http://index.php?topic=3239,shift
http://index.php?topic=2114,shift
http://index.php?topic=2055,shift
http://index.php?topic=2064,shift
http://index.php?topic=2056,shift
http://index.php?topic=240,shift
http://index.php?topic=243,shift

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

Sven · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:49:17 »

Thanks Rodd & Joe,

One more tidbit on my situation. I get a 300-500 rpm increase when applying brakes. I assume there is a vaccuum leak somewhere, but sadly this is not on top of the list for investigation/repair. Does this condition create, add, or muddy my shifting woes?

how much money have i saved asking you guys rather the one guy here in town that knows these cars and charges accordingly?

JPMOSE · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2006, 14:01:01 »

When I floor it and engage first gear, it upshifts rather quickly and usually one of the rear tire squeals along with the shift. In fact, the only way upshifting for first to second is smooth is engaging the shifter in "2" and not flooring it when I take off.

Does anyone else find the upshift from first to second harsh?

Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL
1987 560SL

J. Huber · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2006, 15:58:20 »

JP, that sounds like mine. Definitely burns rubber if I floor it. As stated earlier I rarely start off in "2" -- mostly for that reason. If I don't floor it, the 2 to 3 to 4 is pretty smooth and fun to do.

James
63 230SL

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Author Topic: NO 1ST GEAR WHILE IN 4TH (Read 11006 times)

james

Cortez-Campos

james

psmith

james

Ben

Ben

n/a

Sven

Sven

Sven

Sven