Here it is-King Pin install

[Jazn]

Well, the only way I can have it move freely with the correct torque setting is to leave off one of the thrust washers (the top).  I left in the bottom thrust washer (one with grease groves) and used a compensator ring on top of this instead of the top thrust washer.  Is this okay?
Thanks

[Jazn]

Something is weird.  I am wondering if the spring tension pushing downwards has anything to do with the play of the king pin.  I have the old kingpins, which turned freely before and used all the same equipment, they too bind at 65 lb-ft of torque.  Since I am on a timeline and the car is going to sit, I am going with this theory.

[JimVillers]

Jazn ..... You need to measure the adjusting washer, item #21, and purchase a thinner one.  It is available in six thicknesses from 1.7mm to 2.7mm.


Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor, MGB 5-Speed

[BHap]

The two thrust washers on top need to both be used.  They are hardened steel, one has the grease grooves. The washer below the steering knuckle is the compensating washer - it is softer and can be sanded thinner for more clearance. I think that the one with the grease grooves is the lower of the two with the grease grooves facing up - you can confirm this by locating the cutout for the locating pin. Be careful that you have not crushed the locating pin for the lower thrust washer.  There is a small cutout in the washer that must fit over the locating pin.  If the pin gets crushed (very easy to do), you need to reshape it so that the washer will sit flat on the top of the steering knuckle assembly.  Also be careful how much grease you use - too much grease will cause the assembly to bind.  Try assembling it without a lower compensating washer to make sure there is clearance when torqued.  Then insert the thinnest compensating washer you have, continuously making sure ther top thrust washer is sitting flat - not on the locating pin and see if you can torque to 65 - if not, sand the lower compensating washer thinner and repeat.  I'm not sure what you need to do if there is not clearance without a lower compensating washer....  When I finally got mine right, the compensating washer was very thin...

Bob Happe
Pittsburgh, Pa
1970 280SL, white/black 4 speed

[Jazn]

quote:Originally posted by JimVillers

Jazn ..... You need to measure the adjusting washer, item #21, and purchase a thinner one.  It is available in six thicknesses from 1.7mm to 2.7mm.


Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor, MGB 5-Speed

Yes, I have those, but if it binds up with just the two thrust washers on the top and no compensating/adjusting washer on the bottom, then there must be something wrong.  No?  Or should there at least be a compensating washer on the bottom for it to turn freely?
I am at a loss.

[BHap]

The compensating washer on the bottom takes up space - I don't think it is needed for the spindle to turn freely on the kingpin.  If the unit does not turn freely without the compensating washer I would start to look at the bronze bushings to make sure they were pressed flush with the top and bottom of the spindle.  I would also hold the new kingpin next to the old to be sure that they are the same. I guess it would be possible to have one of the top thrust washers milled thinner (on the surface that does not meet the other thrust washer surface), but it should work without that....

Bob Happe
Pittsburgh, Pa
1970 280SL, white/black 4 speed

[Jazn]

quote:Originally posted by BHap

The compensating washer on the bottom takes up space - I don't think it is needed for the spindle to turn freely on the kingpin.  If the unit does not turn freely without the compensating washer I would start to look at the bronze bushings to make sure they were pressed flush with the top and bottom of the spindle.  I would also hold the new kingpin next to the old to be sure that they are the same. I guess it would be possible to have one of the top thrust washers milled thinner (on the surface that does not meet the other thrust washer surface), but it should work without that....

Bob Happe
Pittsburgh, Pa
1970 280SL, white/black 4 speed

Yes, you're correct, it doesn't matter.  I am going to mill off the top thrust washer, little by little.  Something must be different about the two assemblies, I am positive the old assembly was the original from the factory assembly.  The brass sleeves are flush.  I thought that might be the case too, no dice.
Onward.

[Benz Dr.]

Maybe I cheat a bit but I've done this job a lot of times and sort of figured out a way to do it. I use all the washers that are supposed to be in there and tighten the nut until the assembly starts to bind or until the nut won't turn any more.
If it starts to bind very early on I use a thinner compensating washer. If the nut is compeletly tight and there's still some play then I go back to a thicker washer and only tighten until I feel all the play is gone. As long as you have a few threads exsposed on the bottom of the king pin you can consider it safely screwed on. The locking plate will keep the nut from ever backing off at any rate. For the most part 65 lbs is not very much pressure - the wheel screws are about 80 lbs. So I don't really go by that spec and set them up so they turn freely and the nut is on securely. It probably ends up being very close to spec.

I'm not saying that anyone else should try this unless they know how to do it. For someone doing this for the first ( and probably only ) time you might better follow the book. I've done about 20 sets over the years and like most other things I've figured out how to do it quickly and make it work right the first time.

Some things don't work right the first time, or even the fifth time. No amount of following the book or asking around can get you out of a jam at times. Care and eye for small details, along with expirience are what experts rely on when it comes to making a living.

Saying that, we can all make mistakes and then learn from them. Rembering all your mistakes and then being able to aply that condensed knowledge towards a given problem; working towards a final solution is what it's all about.  

I learn here too, you know....

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[bpossel]

Sorry, I have to ask this question...

 :?: With the pressure of the spring, how does one easily swap the washer and re-tighten, re-test the movement of the spindle?  When I did mine, I was "fighting" against the pull of the spring tension, so not easy to go backwards, undo, and swap washers.  This has been a question of mine, but never asked... until now...

Thanks Dr. Benz and others who are experienced in this area.

Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[glennard]

Kingpins!   Tell me- is the following correct.   The weight of the car is on the 2 thrust washers.  The lower of these two thrust washers is pinned in place. The upper and lower steering knuckles must be aligned-parallel(?).   After alignment the taper is sealed tight by the bottom bolt to 65 lb-ft.  The compensating washer at the bottom just fills up the space to get .002 to .004 clearance play up and down of the spindle assembly on the king pin.  When the thrust washers wear down(never greased!) to give .02 inch play up and down the king pin, it is time to do it again.  This is all done with the spindle/king pin combo off the car.

[mbzse]

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

 :?: With the pressure of the spring, how does one easily swap the washer and re-tighten, re-test the movement of the spindle?  When I did mine, I was "fighting" against the pull of the spring tension../..

Well, in order to work on the king pin assembly, remove the shock absorber and mount a threaded metal bar from lower wishbone arm up to a flat iron bar across the upper A-arm. Tighten nuts on bar to take up all of the spring force. Then you can work with the king pin parts at your leisure

/Hans in Sweden

[glennard]

Re: king pins.  Forgot to include dust covers(keep out dirt, snow, and dead cats, etc.), grease the spindle and knuckle fittings.  Then attach to the control arms.    
Just saw a '24 Model T Ford- King pins were size of pencils and vertical-no tilt.   My, how suspension has improved!

[Benz Dr.]

This is a job you would do with the car on jack stands. I use a small floor jack under the lower control arm to raise the assembly until I can start the nut on the bottom of the king pin. The weight of the car will compress the suspension spring.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061