Door glass guide jaw question

[sterl]

I want to renew the insert in the guide jaw at the top of the front LHS door glass channel as the glass seems to move in and out too much and I'm having trouble with adjustment. In fact, at the moment it doesn't matter how much I turn the adjusting screw in or out it appears to make no difference to the position of the glass!
It looks to me as if the glass has to be removed and the channel partially extracted to do the job. Does anyone know if there's an easier/quicker way?  

Thanks,
Mark

Billericay, Essex, UK
Late 67 LHD 250SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, Mark,
 

quote:In fact, at the moment it doesn't matter how much I turn the adjusting screw in or out it appears to make no difference to the position of the glass!
It looks to me as if the glass has to be removed and the channel partially extracted to do the job. Does anyone know if there's an easier/quicker way?

You may be getting too much movement because the bottom guide could have detatched from the glass...    worth checking.
You may get away with replacing the top guide by just removing the glass.... if the bottom guide is intact.

naj

68 280SL

[sterl]

Naj,
I've used those aftermarket channel insert strips (from Millers I think it was) that replace the large jaws that attach to the glass that you're talking about.

There just seems to be a lot of in-out movement of the LH glass only when it's fully (or near-fully) rolled-up and if that top guide held the glass more tightly I reckon it might fix my problem.  The trouble is that when the glass in the RH door is rolled up the pressure inside the car when you slam the LH door briskly is enough to push the glass out and make it catch on the rubbers. I've played with this for hours and no amount of adjustment elsewhere will make the glass sit properly in this scenario.

No problems with the RH door which also has the Miller inserts.

How difficult is it to replace that jaw insert?

Thanks,
Mark

Billericay, Essex, UK
Late 67 LHD 250SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Mark,
If you disconnect the 2 window regulator arms from the bottom of the glass rail and also, remove the two bottom stops, you may be able to drop the glass deep enough in the door to be able to replace the insert on the top front jaw. The inserts are handed left and right so to you need the correct one.

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naj

[jameshoward]

Naj,

If I may leap in (forgive me, Mark) since from your photo you may be a bit of a door Ninja, do you know what I need to do to get my interior door opening handle to spring back to the 'parked' position once I've used it to open the door? Once I pull on it to get out of the car, it sort of stays out in the 'semi-open relaxed' position rather than springing smartly back into place. I intend to take off the door panel and look but is there a replacement spring I can order in the interim, or something? Any advice gratefully rec'd.

James

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by sterl

I want to renew the insert in the guide jaw at the top of the front LHS door glass channel as the glass seems to move in and out too much....

Mark,
Hi.  Don't remove all the in/out flexibility from the window.  If you notice, the rubber seals around the top of the window (either soft or hard top) have a "groove" to them.  With the door open, the window glass "leans" in toward the car.  As the door closes, the glass contacts the seals and gets pushed up (or stood up) in to the top seal.  This in/out slack in the window allows it to do this.

On some modern luxury convertibles, when you open the door the window electrically drops down about 0.5 inches.  When you close the door, it goes up 0.5 inches into the rubber seal.  Same effect our "loose" windows have.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by jameshoward

Naj,

If I may leap in (forgive me, Mark) since from your photo you may be a bit of a door Ninja, do you know what I need to do to get my interior door opening handle to spring back to the 'parked' position once I've used it to open the door? Once I pull on it to get out of the car, it sort of stays out in the 'semi-open relaxed' position rather than springing smartly back into place. I intend to take off the door panel and look but is there a replacement spring I can order in the interim, or something? Any advice gratefully rec'd.

James

James

The return spring for the pull handle is a torsional coil spring that is riveted in place inside the door latch assembly. These must break quite often because besides the one on my left door I have two other latch assemblies in this same condition. I was able to make a repair spring for my car but I think I should start another tread to explain how I went about making it work again. I'll take some pics and start up another thread in the next couple of days.

Al


66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket

[jameshoward]

Al,

Thanks. It already sounds more complex that I had thought!! My car goes for its second and, I hope, final TUV test tomorrow. I've spent months getting it ready (with a mechanic, to be fair). If it passes, I get license plates and the ability to focus on the annoying but enjoyable little jobs - like the door handle.

I'll look forward to your post and will contribute as necessary. Providing the car passes, otherwise I have no clue where we'll end up next.

James

[J. Huber]

Hey James. In addition to what Al said -- you may find that once you have the door panels off, you can see why the finger handle isn't returning. It could be the spring or perhaps something else binding.

Related question for door experts: I know that my driver's side regulator has been replaced (have the records). It turns out the new one they put in is the later version -- as the crank does not have a screw but rather is a slip-fit. The result is I have non-matching cranks...If I wanted to get back to the correct crank (SLS has these) I could either A. try and find an early regulator ($$$ - not going to happen) OR B. I could possibly make the early crank fit. Would it be as easy as drilling out the crank screw hole on an early crank and slipping it on?

Here's what I am referring to: item page 72 d.

http://www.sls-hh-catalogue.de/bin/dbframes.phtml?mid=IN02

James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
 

[If I may leap in (forgive me, Mark) since from your photo you may be a bit of a door Ninja, do you know what I need to do to get my interior door opening handle to spring back to the 'parked' position once I've used it to open the door? Once I pull on it to get out of the car, it sort of stays out in the 'semi-open relaxed' position rather than springing smartly back into place. I intend to take off the door panel and look but is there a replacement spring I can order in the interim, or something? Any advice gratefully rec'd.

James

One 'cheap repair' solution is to add a little coil spring to pull the operating rod back.
Hope you can see it tucked under the rod in the picture.


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naj

68 280SL

[jameshoward]

Naj,

Great idea, thanks. I'll let you know how I get on.

James

[66andBlue]

Mark,
this topic might also be useful: http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4092

James,
while you are at it also check that the rubber stubs that hold the locking rods are in place and not worn out. Your "semi-open" lock could also be caused if the rod is bent or binds because the white plastic guides inside the rubber stubs are missing.

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Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

Mark,
this topic might also be useful: http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4092

James,
while you are at it also check that the rubber stubs that hold the locking rods are in place and not worn out. Your "semi-open" lock could also be caused if the rod is bent or binds because the white plastic guides inside the rubber stubs are missing. See picture (it also shows the torsional spring mentioned by Al and Naj):

Download Attachment: Locking bars.jpg
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Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

Alfred

That isn't the return spring for the door release. It is a device to prevent the door from opening from inside when locked.
I am posting a seperate thread to show where the return spring breaks and how I have repaired them.

Al
66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring
Alfred
That isn't the return spring for the door release. It is a device to prevent the door from opening from inside when locked ...

Ooops .. and thanks Al for the correction. I changed my previous comments so not to create more confusion.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring
Alfred
That isn't the return spring for the door release. It is a device to prevent the door from opening from inside when locked ...

Ooops .. and thanks Al for the correction. I changed my previous comments so not to create more confusion.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

Hey, wer'e all here to keep each other honest          :|
Al

66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket

[waltklatt]

Alfred, Al,
That small spring on the rod is there to prevent the handle inside from breaking or snapping off when one tries to open a locked door.  When the door is locked the handle inside can still be pulled out to the open position with a strong tension, but wont break.
Alfred is right that the plastic guides should be cleaned and lubed to allow the handle to return to the right place when unlocked, if the spring inside the door catch assembly is ok.  
I just simply remove them and shoot a lot of brake cleaner inside to clean out the dirt and gunk and then do a liquid grease coating(should be lithium based).  Then work it a few times to ensure everything s smooth.  
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel

[al_lieffring]

quote:Originally posted by waltklatt

Alfred, Al,
That small spring on the rod is there to prevent the handle inside from breaking or snapping off when one tries to open a locked door.  When the door is locked the handle inside can still be pulled out to the open position with a strong tension, but wont break.
Alfred is right that the plastic guides should be cleaned and lubed to allow the handle to return to the right place when unlocked, if the spring inside the door catch assembly is ok.  
I just simply remove them and shoot a lot of brake cleaner inside to clean out the dirt and gunk and then do a liquid grease coating(should be lithium based).  Then work it a few times to ensure everything s smooth.  
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel

Walter

I think we have an issue here of "tuh-MAY-toe, TOE-mot-O".

First. I agree completly. A thourough cleaning to remove the gooey sludge that has built up over the past 40 years in the latch, controll rods and thier attachments is an important part of this repair. I put the latch assembly in my ultrasonic parts cleaner to get all of the dried up grease out.

Second. I also agree that the spring mechanism on the release lever controll rod is there to prevent damage to the handle by, as I stated, not allowing the door to unlatch from inside when locked.

puh-TAY-toe, POE-tot-O.

Al  



66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket

[waltklatt]

While I wipe the tomato puree off my glasses :? .  We both said basically the same thing.  
Poh-tah-toe and Poh-tay-toe.
Heehee    
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel-no tomato there.

Walter

I think we have an issue here of "tuh-MAY-toe, TOE-mot-O".

First. I agree completly. A thourough cleaning to remove the gooey sludge that has built up over the past 40 years in the latch, controll rods and thier attachments is an important part of this repair. I put the latch assembly in my ultrasonic parts cleaner to get all of the dried up grease out.

Second. I also agree that the spring mechanism on the release lever controll rod is there to prevent damage to the handle by, as I stated, not allowing the door to unlatch from inside when locked.

puh-TAY-toe, POE-tot-O.

Al  



66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket
[/quote]

[ChrisInNashville]

OK guys.   I've read this post with interest and the link that Alfred posted below.

My driver side door window "popped outward" on a 120 mile drive yesterday - sticking out about 1 inch away from the hardtop.  

I just got inside the door and it's the "rear guide jaw" that has fallen off with the felt seriously deteriorated to where I can't reuse it.  I've ordered the appropriate parts from Millers

So, here are my questions:
- someone along the way placed serious grease on all the window mechanisms inside the door.   All the pictures posted here are "clean".  Mine has heavy white grease on all the mechanics.  Is the use of this grease typical?
- Assuming that this grease is not typical, will this likely make it difficult for me to get the guide jaw to grip the glass or will there be enough tension to overcome the grease?
- Should I remove all this grease?   I've not had a problem in the four years of ownership....thoughts on this?
- Any other words of wisdom while I'm waiting for the parts to arrive?

I welcome thoughts.

Chris

[ChrisInNashville]

Thanks Dan...I'll let you know how it works...but I just got distracted with a Starter problem (as in, it won't start)...so that's my new priority.