The R113 Pagoda.

[tobacco]

After a lot of years certain that the proper designation of the 230/250/280 SL is W 113, I was shocked to find that the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center is offering reprinted material classifying these cars as the "R113".  

To my knowledge, R113 has never before appeared in any authoritative literature.  So I'm wondering if DaimlerChrysler has decided to retroactively re-designate the Pagoda (along with the 190 SL and 300 SL, it should be noted) as R's -- even though the first "R" to come out of the factory was supposedly the R 107, 350 SL.

I'm fearful that this is sloppy research at best, and revisionist history at worst.  

Any comments?

Bill Greffin
Chicago
#22375

[Albert-230SL]

Hi Bill,

You are right, the proper designation of the Pagoda is W 113, or W113. It might be a typing error o some other mistake: if you look the recent book about our cars published by Mercedes-Benz Classic (see the cover in the attached photo below), you can clearly read "W" and not "R".

In fact, according to Gunter Engelen's book, it was a true R113: the unique factory experimental Pagoda with Rotative engine... but I think nobody is offering reprinted material for this car!

Regards,

Download Attachment: FaszinationW113.jpg
68.46 KB

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[Richard Madison]

Albert:
No doubt historically the chassis was called W113. I think Bill is asking if now DC is "renaming" the family as "R113".

I find it hard to believe that DC would make a mistake or a typing error on such a well known fundamental designation. I have seen "R113" used on manuals in the past. It may be that DC now considers the W113 and R113 designations as interchangeable with either being correct.

On a personal note, I find the "W" in 'W113' quite awkward on the tongue and much prefer the more rhythmic "R113" if it is a correct designation for these cars.

Richard M
P.S.  While "R" might be taken to mean "Roadster", historically when MB used "R" in a chassis designation like "R107", the "R" was for "Reihe", German for "Series".

[Albert-230SL]

Richard and Bill:

I don't know what kind of reprinted material is selling that Classic Center (German or American?) with the "R113". Is this material really "official"? Bill, could you give more details? For instance: I bought a rough spare parts list in the MB stand at the Techno Classica Essen (Germany), and somewhere is written "R113", but this list is published by the "Vereich der Heckflossenfreunde e.V. MB-Strich-Acht-IG" (a German MB club), so it doesn't come directly from MB. I cannot consider it 100% "official".

For that reason, I commented the example of the recent book published by Mercedes-Benz Classic about our cars, because they supposedly tried to be more accurate on the cover of such book, and they wrote "W 113", so for this reason, I think they are not "renaming" the car... But who knows? I will read the whole book again, and will inform here if I found any "R113" there.

On a personal note, R113 sounds good, but I prefer W113 for the connection with the mythical "Silver Arrows" Grand Prix cars: W25, W125, W154, W165, W196... And I also prefer to be on the side of the classics W198 and W121 (300 SL Gullwing/Roadster and 190 SL) instead of the side with the modern R107, R129, R230... The Pagoda is the last of the true classics Mercedes-Benz SL... Please don't change us of group!  

Note: With all my respects to the R107, R129... My brother owns a 500 SL R129!  

Regards,

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[n/a]

Albert,

I have seen this also.  After reading your post I searched the Mercedes USA site again and found what I think Bill is talking about.
There are several references on this site in the "Technical Literature" section that has the 230/250/280 SL listed as "R113" ONLY.
I realize this is a USA version of Mercedes-Benz, however I still believe this is an "official" part of Mercedes.

Here is one example of the offending site.

http://www.thecollection.mbusa.com/Accessories/catalog/Category.jhtml?CATID=415&StartDisplayIndex=1&ItemsToDisplay=4

Michael Penner

[Albert-230SL]

Hi Michael,

So it seems an "official" mistake by the USA version [:0]... because they aren't giving a very accurate information. If you go to:

http://www.thecollection.mbusa.com/Accessories/catalog/templates/A_Prod_List_Beside_SideNav.jhtml?CATID=411&ItemsToDisplay=10&StartDisplayIndex=5

you will find a W129 (instead of W109?), and they only write R107 when it refers to both R/C107... and if you go to:

http://www.thecollection.mbusa.com/Accessories/catalog/templates/A_Prod_List_Beside_SideNav.jhtml?CATID=413&ItemsToDisplay=8&StartDisplayIndex=25

you will find R198 for both 300 SL Roadster and Coupé, when the proper designation is W198I for the Coupé, and W198II for the Roadster... You can also read there R107 for the SLC owner's manual (instead of C107)... They also classify the 190 SL as R121... So, it's definitely not a very reliable source for designations! They simply put an "R" (of roadster?) in front of all SLs (including the non-roadsters Gullwing and SLC!!)

Regards,

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

[tobacco]

I thought I'd call Doug Pederson at the Mercedes-Benz USA Classic Center (his summary of the available literature is on pages 92-94 of the May/June 2003 Star Magazine).  He told me the "R" designation is not meant to be technically correct, but rather a simplified reference that the car in question is a roadster.

(One might ask if the model name doesn't already do that -- and even then how does one explain the "R" awarded to the 300SL coupe?)

A couple of other points from Doug:  the literature comes from Germany, it's officially Mercedes-Benz, and while it strives to be accurate, it's in no way meant to exactly duplicate original material (explaining why a 280SL/8 owner's manual has morphed into a 250/280SL owner's manual).  Many of them even include DaimlerChrysler copyrights now.

Bill Greffin
Chicago
#22375

[Albert-230SL]

Thanks for the clarification Bill!

Regards,
Albert

[Albert-230SL]

quote:Originally posted by 280SL71

...
Richard M
P.S.  While "R" might be taken to mean "Roadster", historically when MB used "R" in a chassis designation like "R107", the "R" was for "Reihe", German for "Series".

Hi Richard,

That's interesting additional info about the meaning of the "R". I had read about that other meaning somewhere. But I think MB never used the "R" for "Reihe" in the official designations.

You mentioned the R107, the first chassis with the "R" in the official designation... It seems that "R" also means "Roadster" here, in order to better differentiate between the 107 Roadster (R107) and the 107 SLC coupé (C107)... and the "R" was left there for next roadster generations R129, R170, R230...

MB also used the "C" for "Coupé" in the C123 coupé and the C126 SEC. And there is also an "S" in the S123 station wagon. But most of the cars have the famous "W" in the official designation, probably for German word "Wagengestell" (=chassis).

Regards,

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432