Author Topic: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor  (Read 22719 times)

Naj ✝︎

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2007, 05:07:50 »
Hello, rrwooward,

 
quote:
I've figured our as long as I cruise at nor more than 2,500rpm, or about 45mph in 4th gear, I have no problems. Once I get it up to 3000rpm, near 60mph, thats when I get the serious back-fires. Now, at 2,500rpm, I will get small back fires when I let up off the gas, but not too bad


At first I thought you might have the wrong distributor, but it is listed for a late 280 SL. Recheck timing setting. Max advance on it should be 20 +/- 2. Yours may be advanced too much???
Also check vacuum cell function. Its a vacuum retard dizzy.

Hope this helps

naj

68 280SL
68 280SL

Raymond

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2007, 13:17:46 »
The "diesel" sound you describe...could it be knocking?  I think Naj is right to suspect incorrect advance or improper timing.  You may be hearing pre-ignition which would not be good for your engine if you "drive it a good bit".  

Does the popping and backfire occur when you try to accelerate or at any steady speed above 2500?

Regarding batteries.  Learn about Optima batteries before you buy.  There are good reasons to consider one of them before a standard Lead-acid battery.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe
« Last Edit: May 28, 2007, 13:19:20 by Raymond »
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe

Randy Woodward

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2007, 16:24:26 »
Ok, that's a great question because I can answer it. The opooing occurs ONLY at sustained seeds above about 3000rpm, those are the very serious ones, back-fires more than just popping. When I deaccelerate from 2500rpm or so, I get the smaller popping, or mini back-fires. I NEVER get a single back-fire or a popping sound when I accelerate. This car kicks ass when I accelerating as hard as I want in all gears.

Randy
quote:
Originally posted by Raymond

The "diesel" sound you describe...could it be knocking?  I think Naj is right to suspect incorrect advance or improper timing.  You may be hearing pre-ignition which would not be good for your engine if you "drive it a good bit".  

Does the popping and backfire occur when you try to accelerate or at any steady speed above 2500?

Regarding batteries.  Learn about Optima batteries before you buy.  There are good reasons to consider one of them before a standard Lead-acid battery.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe


Randy Woodward

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2007, 16:26:12 »
Thanks James. My Dad charged it full today, and it's starts with the least amount of effort since I've had it. But I still think I'm going to just get a new one. Thanks

quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Hey Randy. I'd say if the battery has died not once but twice -- just go get a new one. There isn't an easier upgrade/repair out there... Head to the nearest Sears Autocenter. I have always had good luck with Diehard (Gold I think it is).

James
63 230SL


Benz Dr.

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2007, 23:20:38 »
W7DC plugs are what's called for but I find they're too cold in all but the best engines. I use W9DC for almost everything around here and find they work better in engines that are a bit worn and run rich.  I can get either plug by the box full of 10 and as many as you want.

These engines are very sensitive to ignition timing and even a small amount will make big a difference. If the vacuum switch over valve isn't working the engine won't run as well at higher speeds. It should kick in around 2,200 - 2,500 RPM's. It seems to hold longer as the RPM's are falling but comes on sooner as you pick up speed. This falls in nicely with some people reporting that their engine runs fine under 2,500 RPM.

If the engine pulls hard until you get above 3,000 RPM and then starts to cut out or misfire it's igntion related. Fuel injection problems or pump problems tend to have a constant misfire over a broad range and often with a very rich running engine. No amount of tuning or timing adjustments cure this.

If you run out of power at a certain speed and the engine just sits there no matter how hard you push the pedal or how long you hold it - that's timing. Too much retard.
If the engine looses power and seems to slow down, that's fuel. If it chugs a bit and then dies, you're out of gas.
If it starts hard like it has a dead battery, that's too much timing advance.
If it has a slight but steady miss at cruising speed, that's too much timing advance. A bad plug will have a steady miss especialy under load but you might not feel it as much at steady speed. Power loss will be very noticeable with a bad plug but with too much advance you will be loosing losts of power - you just can't feel it as much.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Randy Woodward

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2007, 06:24:07 »
Thanks Dan, that's very good information. I'm going to print this off and take it to my mechanic and have him check these things out. He seemed to think the Advance/Retard (I believe they are related) was working fine. But in the end, I think it's a combination of all the avove. I think the timing needs some work for sure, but I also get the feeling from reading the forums that I could have an advance problem as well. I'll keep this thread updated. Thanks again Dan.

quote:
Originally posted by Benz Dr.

W7DC plugs are what's called for but I find they're too cold in all but the best engines. I use W9DC for almost everything around here and find they work better in engines that are a bit worn and run rich.  I can get either plug by the box full of 10 and as many as you want.

These engines are very sensitive to ignition timing and even a small amount will make big a difference. If the vacuum switch over valve isn't working the engine won't run as well at higher speeds. It should kick in around 2,200 - 2,500 RPM's. It seems to hold longer as the RPM's are falling but comes on sooner as you pick up speed. This falls in nicely with some people reporting that their engine runs fine under 2,500 RPM.

If the engine pulls hard until you get above 3,000 RPM and then starts to cut out or misfire it's igntion related. Fuel injection problems or pump problems tend to have a constant misfire over a broad range and often with a very rich running engine. No amount of tuning or timing adjustments cure this.

If you run out of power at a certain speed and the engine just sits there no matter how hard you push the pedal or how long you hold it - that's timing. Too much retard.
If the engine looses power and seems to slow down, that's fuel. If it chugs a bit and then dies, you're out of gas.
If it starts hard like it has a dead battery, that's too much timing advance.
If it has a slight but steady miss at cruising speed, that's too much timing advance. A bad plug will have a steady miss especialy under load but you might not feel it as much at steady speed. Power loss will be very noticeable with a bad plug but with too much advance you will be loosing losts of power - you just can't feel it as much.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061


Ben

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2007, 09:37:19 »
You wont get that "pinging", pre-igntion noise at idle, but you mentionn that it sounds noisey............do you think you could have an exhaust manifold leak ?

That would also give you popping when you come of the gas !

Just a thought !

Good luck !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.

hands_aus

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2007, 05:32:59 »
quote:
Originally posted by rrwooward

Ok Ray, I just ordered them off the internet. Thanks for the help. I hope they make a difference. So, I've been driving around a bunch the last few days. When it's idling, it still sounds a little rough like a diesel engine, but not too bad. I've figured our as long as I cruise at nor more than 2,500rpm, or about 45mph in 4th gear, I have no problems. Once I get it up to 3000rpm, near 60mph, thats when I get the serious back-fires. Now, at 2,500rpm, I will get small back fires when I let up off the gas, but not too bad. Yet, still annoying. So, I'm going to take it back to mechanic and see what he can do. But I'm thinking I may need to go to someone who also knows what he is doing, but also someone who has one of those "dyno"? machines. But I'll try this guy I've been using first.

Also, my damn battery was dead again this morning. It was dead when I first got it, but once we got it charged, it seemed fine. And it's been working for about a week. But this morning, just would not turn over at first, and battery was dieing.

New Battery?


Thanks for everyones help.


Hey Ray,

I had troubles with my battery going flat when the lights were on. I thought it was the regulator.
It was a loose fan belt.

Worth a check.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

piddler

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2007, 06:02:45 »
When I brought my wife's "new" 230sl home the battery was dead. I started looking for a ground and traced it to the starter. I pulled the starter and removed the housing over the brushes. The brushes looked good but there was a lot of crud in the housing. I cleaned it up and checked with an ohm meter. Everything checked out so I re-installed the starter. So far, no problems.

Pete

andkrist

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2007, 14:36:53 »
Hi

i also have the  #0-231-116-062 (JFUR6) distributor in my 70 280 sl. but i didnt find any ansver to witch pertronix that fits this one, i checked with pertronix web page and its not listed. i hope sombody have som experince and advice on this.

Anders Kristiansen
Sandefjord
Norway

280 sl 1970 us modell
Withe with green interior

rogerh113

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Re: Help Needed - Original vs. Electrical Distributor
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2007, 08:12:32 »
Hello,

I have a low compression appropriate distributor in my 230SL, which was also not listed.  I contacted Pertronix directly (via email, I think), and they were VERY helpful and responsive.  This was several years ago, but I would suggest going directly to the source.  Mine has been running great since I installed it.

Regards -- Roger
1966 230SL black 4 speed (250 low compression engine)