Tire Question

[raftel]

Now that the in-laws have made their purchase, one of the first things is to get a new set of tires in a 195/75R14.  Here are my bounds:

1.  Reasonable cost (no repro Phoenixs for $200 each)
2.  No brand that would not have come on the tire originally (that means no Kumho, Hankook, or other Asian brand).
3.  No Firestone, or by relation Bridgestone tires (remember the Firestone 500? My father in law does.).
4. Must be whitewall.

So far, tire rack as the Goodyear Regatta 2 and a Dunlop SP60.  I also found a Continental TouringContact AS and Michelin Symmetry at www.tires-easy.com.  Has anyone tried any of these tires?

Thanks,

Robert

[mdsalemi]

Robert,

Those are some stiff requirements.

1)  What is reasonable?  $50?  $75?  $100?
2)  The only brands the car was designed around were the Continental RA60 and the FIRESTONE Phoenix.  Michelin was specifically rejected as being too flexible in the sidewalls.
3)  You probably don't need to go to a Firestone, but the Firestone 500 was a problem 30 years ago!  I've had tread separation on Michelin and several other steel belted radials in my lifetime--none of them Firestone.
4)  That's the clincher.  You've narrowed down your choice set by probably 90%

There's a lot written on tires in this forum.  I think many have had good luck with the Symmetry.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[Douglas]

Robert,

You seem like a stickler. Why not go with the original dimensions?

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

[rwmastel]

Robert,

I've been running the same set of white wall Michelin Symmetry, in size 195/75 R14, on my 230SL for 7 years and about 25,000 KM (15,000 miles?).  Plenty of tread left, but I will probably change them out in the next year or two due to age.  I will probably buy Bridgestone as MBCA members have $100 rebate on 4 different models of their tires, one of which would be good for the old SL.  That discount makes up for two years membership at $45/year!

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[hauser]

In preperation for Blacklick and the looong road ahead of me I needed to replace my 7 year old Michelin Rainforce tires.  I too wanted whitewalls so I decided on the Yokohama Avid Touring.  I've never had Yokos before so we'll see.   By preference I would have chosen the Michelin Harmony but no ww available.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[raftel]

mdsalemi-  
1) good question.  $75 is very reasonable.  $200 not so much.
2) short of going to the previously mentioned expensive repros, nothing is going to be like what the car was designed for.  I'd like to see how happy board members are with the compromises they've made in that regard.
3) father in laws car, father in laws choice.  In the '70s, a set of 500s blew, and the flapping treads tore up the fenders of his MGB.  Firestone never made good, and he never forgot that.
4) again, f-i-l wants whitewalls.

Douglas-
Well, I am also a member of the AACA, so I guess I'm a bit of a stickler.  The only 185r14s I've found that weren't boutique repros are eurovan tires.  I don't think we want those on an SL.

So far it seems to be between Michelin and the Conti - does anyone have experience with the Dunlop?  I ask because a good local tire shop is a Dunlop dealer, and I'd like to give the business to a local shop if I can.

Thanks!

Robert

[dendrinos]

I agree, why not go back to the original dimension if you are sticking by the white wall, and brand requirements?

Personally i would like to get a set of the Repos. i still have the original Phoenix spare tire in the trunk. Never been on the road. I dont want to redirect this conversation but, where would one find those repo Phoenix tires?

quote:Originally posted by raftel

Now that the in-laws have made their purchase, one of the first things is to get a new set of tires in a 195/75R14.  Here are my bounds:

1.  Reasonable cost (no repro Phoenixs for $200 each)...
Thanks,

Robert

280 Sl
Michigan, USA

[mdsalemi]

The reproduction Phoenix tires are sold only by Coker and its agents worldwide.  They offer a discount to MBCA members which lightens the blow somewhat:

http://store.coker.com/product.php?productid=17493&cat=0&page=1

Coker also sells the Vredestein (discussed in another thread):

http://store.coker.com/product.php?productid=695012068&cat=0&page=1

and the Michelin MXV-P:

http://store.coker.com/product.php?productid=695012120&cat=0&page=1

...the latter two in blackwall only.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[Vince Canepa]

The Coker Phoenix is not the same as the original Phoenix.  The tread pattern is quite a bit different.  Regardless, the Coker tire is the correct size and offers the whitewall that some want.  If you don't go that route your choices are very limited - basically you shop until you find something.

The correct size in a 70 series is 205/70.  The 195/70 is actually the 70 series equivalent of the 175-14.  The 205's are also hard to find.  Some folks say they scrape but I never had that problem with my 250SL.  One choice would be the Coker Michelin XWX (which was the absolute max performance tire of it's day) but Coker gets nearly $400/tire for them.

Vince Canepa

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by raftel

2.  No brand that would not have come on the tire originally (that means no Kumho, Hankook, or other Asian brand).

Robert,

I have a question about this condition.

Do you mean you only want a tire that was originally a factory installed option?

OR

Do you mean you only want a tire that would have been available at any tire shop back in the 1960's?

These are two very different things.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[mdsalemi]

If your father in law is paying the bills and making the decisions, you should print out some of these posts and let him decide.

The correct size of tire is 185HR14.  This is getting very difficult to find.  In whitewall, even more so.

The 70 series alternative, as Vince points out, is 205/70HR14.  This isn't easy to find either.  While Vince didn't have a rubbing problem, I did with Pirelli P400's which are appear to be NLA in that aforementioned size.  More importantly, an inflated spare simply would not fit in the trunk on the mount.  So I had to get a Michelin spare in non-70 series to fit in the trunk.  Others didn't seem to have this issue either.  This is kind of QED for the fact that these cars were for the most part, "hand made".

Vince also points out the Coker isn't an exact replica; by far it isn't.  It's a true radial where the original Conti RA60 and Firestone Phoenix was both radial and bias.  If you read a bit of the history of the car's design, you'll see how important the tire was.  I have the Cokers and wouldn't trade them for anything--worth every penny.  Others didn't have as good luck with them.

There probably isn't a car made in recent memory that has any of these sizes as standard which explains the dearth of selections in those sizes.  It's changing daily, too.

Keep in mind, too, that dad in law might not like the selection he made; I had the P400's and they did not work well on my car.  See the post on Tire Nirvana which explains more in detail.

So, if one gets a set of tires for $350/$400 and doesn't like them...you then put them on eBay and there goes at least $200 down the drain.

Don't know where you are but if you come to Blacklick you might have the opportunity to drive a couple of different tires on different cars.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America

[raftel]

Thanks for the responses, it's been a busy couple of days.  My mother was involved in a head on collision while driving my 4 yr old son home to me.  A woman decided to use the southbound lanes of Route 1 to go north and struck my mom's stopped car.  When my mom tried to step foot out of the car to exchange information, the woman pulled back into her travel lane and hit my mother's driver's door, pinning her leg against the door frame.  Some people should not breed.  Everyone appears to be ok but sore, but Blacklick is not going to happen this year.

rwmastel - i think he'd prefer a type of tire normally available for the car - michelin, pirelli, continental, dunlop, etc.  Not Bridgestone (Japanese and owns Firestone), Kumho, Hankook, etc.  Does not need to be original pattern, but near the right size and pattern for the car.

mdsalemi- This is a familiar problem for me.  I also have a 6.9, which uses 215-vr70/14 tires normally - try finding those.  I appreciate what you said about available tires, I was hoping someone on this board had direct experience with some of the tires I mentioned and could tell me about them.  


Robert

[George Davis]

Robert,

sorry about the accidents, and glad everyone is ok.

I had Michelin Symmetry on the Pagoda for a while, nice tires, no complaints.  I don't think they are produced any more, so might be old(er) stock?

I had Conti TouringContact CH on another car, nicest riding tires I've ever had.

I would guess you can't go wrong with either Michelins or Contis.  Personally, I go with 195/75R14 because 205/70 rubs on my car, but they didn't rub badly, just a bit.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[68_white]

I BOUGHT GOODYEARS TWO YEARS AGO. THEY WERE VERY HARD. I TOOK THEM BACK TO SAM'S TOW DAYS LATER FOR A FULL REFUND.

AFTER SOME RESEARCH, I BOUGHT THE FIRESTONES. MODEL, SIZE = AFFINITY LH-30, 205/70HR14. THEY ARE GREAT, NOT HARD AND HANDLE VERY WELL.

I BELIEVE I PAID SOMETHING LESS THAN $100 EA FROM TIRE RACK.

ONLY ONE PROBLEM, THE FIFTH TIRE IN THE TRUNK GETS TOUCHED BUT THE TRUNK LID ARM.

HARRY

68_WHITE

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by raftel

I was hoping someone on this board had direct experience with some of the tires I mentioned and could tell me about them.

Sounds like two votes for Michelin in size 195/75R14, if you can still find the Symmetry with whitewall.

quote:Originally posted by rwmastel

I've been running the same set of white wall Michelin Symmetry, in size 195/75 R14, on my 230SL for 7 years and about 25,000 KM (15,000 miles?).  Plenty of tread left, but I will probably change them out in the next year or two due to age.

quote:Originally posted by George Davis

I had Michelin Symmetry on the Pagoda for a while, nice tires, no complaints.  I don't think they are produced any more, so might be old(er) stock?

I had Conti TouringContact CH on another car, nicest riding tires I've ever had.

I would guess you can't go wrong with either Michelins or Contis.  Personally, I go with 195/75R14 because 205/70 rubs on my car, but they didn't rub badly, just a bit.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[J. Huber]

I have Michelins (X-Ones: no longer available) and think they do just fine. (195/70/14s). They didn't come in whitewall though. But I vote for Michelin!

To be frank, the tires might be the tip of the iceberg to getting the car to handle and ride as it should. You should also check the condition of your shocks, engine mounts, sub-frame mounts, sway bar bushings, etc. This will make the most difference. Good luck and also glad the family is ok.

James
63 230SL