Author Topic: Ignition/Radio Question  (Read 15821 times)

J. Huber

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Ignition/Radio Question
« on: September 27, 2007, 14:44:36 »
Hey. Not sure if this has ever been asked. I don't know about you but I always feel a little worried running my radio with the car not running. You know, when you're parked and listening to the end of your favorite tune. It is not so much a fear of running the battery down -- but the fact that the fuel pump is humming right along. Is there any damage that can be done by having the fuel pump run for minutes on end?

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

graphic66

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 16:43:44 »
I think your more likely to burn up a set of points. I don't think there is any accessory position on the ignition. So the points, if closed can burn if power is to them. The fuel pump is always running the same, just the return line carries more or less depending on demand.

seattle_Jerry

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 00:45:31 »
Aftermarket or stock radio? If it is aftermarket, why not run straight from the battery (fused of course). That way when you are up at inspiration point you can listen to the radio without burning the points. Same goes for the drive-in.

I had my ignition out earlier this summer...I could have sworn there was an accessory hook up....I know my 70 220D had one for sure.

1967 230SL Havana Brown Auto with A/C

hands_aus

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 06:17:04 »
I understand the 230 and early 250sls did not have an electrical 'accessory' position but they have a 'garage' position where you can turn the key and remove it. This has the steering lock dis-engaged.
The late 250 and 280sls have the electrical 'accessories' position.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
best of the best

sjiatrou

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2007, 09:01:46 »
James:

I may be misreading your question but you can wire the radio to the hot lead of the courtesy light.  That's how the MB dealer in San Francisco apparently wired mine in 1964 (1964 dealer installed Blaupunkt).  The radio always has power (key or no key) so I can shut the car down and still catch the last bars of my favorite classic.  I have had to make it a habit of always checking the radio to make sure it's off before I leave the car.

Steve
Seaside, CA
1964 230sl roadster
White (050)/Black (116)

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2007, 10:23:24 »
Thanks all. Well, mine is a replacement Becker. As for wiring all I know is it only comes on when I turn the key to second position (the point where the fuel pump is running). I am curious what you mean by points burning...are they involved at this stage of the game? I always figured they got involved as starter kicked over...

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

nick350

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2007, 12:11:51 »
I have mine wired independently of the ignition. The aerial goes down when I switch off the radio. This was as it was when the radio wasf itted in 71

66andBlue

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2007, 12:43:37 »
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

 .. I am curious what you mean by points burning...are they involved at this stage of the game? I always figured they got involved as starter kicked over...

I am curious also.
And, when does the coil get power, can it burn up too?

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

al_lieffring

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2007, 13:04:45 »
This was what my kids called "Car Sitting" It usually was sitting in the driveway after getting home listening to the end of a report on N.P.R.'s "All Things Considered". It especially annoyed them when they had to wait for me because the door to the house was locked.

Leaving the ignition (red indicator lamp) on when the motor is not running WILL cause the points to burn up and or overheat the coil. There is actually a 50/50 chance that the motor stopped in a position where the points are open and no current is going through the circuit, but there is no way to tell from inside the car so you must assume that the points are closed and current is going through the points and charging the coil.

SLs made before 1968 have a different ignition switch than cars made after. The cars with the double sided key have a terminal (marked R) that turns on when the key is in the #1 position. The earlier cars do not.

I have found that the later switch will fit on the early lock with the single sided key, and have one installed in my 66, 230. The old style switch has screw terminals the later one has a round shaped plug in connector, so to switch the car over the terminals at the key switch would have to be cut off the harness and the plug in terminals will need to be soldered on.

When I used to part out old 108s and 114s I would cut off the plug connectors from the wiring harness so I already had one in my goody stash.
It is a lot of work, I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you have the dash apart already and are looking for something extra to do when you have it apart.

Just an added note;
Breakerless ignition kits do charge the coil when the key is on, but the motor is not running, at least the PerTronic kits do, not sure about the Crane kits, but it would safe to assume they do too. So even if the car has a breakerless kit there is still the chance of overheating the coil.

Al Lieffring
66 230Sl
Jones'n for a new gas tank
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 13:56:28 by al_lieffring »

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2007, 14:13:15 »
Ok. So to be clear: when I run my radio without engine, I am putting strain on battery, coil, points, fuel pump (and my brain when listening to NPR...).

On to the cure: I have a small auxillary fuse box on the passenger side of engine bay. At the moment the fuse is out and a small wire is taped off that runs into cabin. What about splicing that wire up to my hot wire on the Becker. Would that solve things? What size fuse?

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

al_lieffring

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2007, 14:27:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Ok. So to be clear: when I run my radio without engine, I am putting strain on battery, coil, points, fuel pump (and my brain when listening to NPR...).

On to the cure: I have a small auxillary fuse box on the passenger side of engine bay. At the moment the fuse is out and a small wire is taped off that runs into cabin. What about splicing that wire up to my hot wire on the Becker. Would that solve things? What size fuse?

James
63 230SL



James

That fuse box is where the radio was originaly attached. It is powered all the time and gets its power from the B+ terminal stud on the back of the alternator. Clean all the corrosion off the fuse tabs and the screw terminals where the wires attach and you should be set to go.

The fuse that goes there is brown in color and rated about 3amps.

Al Lieffring
66 230Sl
New blue top just arrived
new gas tank on order

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2007, 15:49:32 »
Done!

Now, that's what I love about this site. One day, you ponder and post something -- and next day you are applying your newly found knowledge. I hooked up to the auxillary fuse box per Al's instructions. I used an 8 since its all I had. Worked like a charm.

Now I can listen to my Ipod (via the Becker) while detailing and tinkering (and with no fuel pump humming along!)

Thanks again all!


James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2007, 14:38:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by al_lieffring ... That fuse box is where the radio was originaly attached. It is powered all the time and gets its power from the B+ terminal stud on the back of the alternator.


Al and James,
by coincidence I have just received a copy of the original installation instructions (in German) for  Becker TR Monte Carlo/Europa/Mexico radios with automatic antennas (4140L/6000D). The 8 A fuse was used for the antenna and the other slot either had a 2 A for the Monte Carlo or a 5 A fuse for the others.
So, it depends on which radio you have installed.  Unfortunately I don't have instructions for later models but I do know that a Mexico casette radio also uses a 5 A.  I wonder what my Europa II Stereo requires - need to call Tom Mitchell and find out.
The current replacement antenna AUTA 2040 also needs a 5A fuse.
David Gallon sells the 5 A fuses if you want them.



Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 14:58:15 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2007, 15:49:24 »
Alfred, is there harm in using an 8 where a 3 or 5 should be? I have a handful of extra fuses -- but they are all the standard 8, 16, and 24 that the main box takes. Or, where could I get a torpedo 5 etc? Oops -- why David Gallon of course! (now who is he again?)
James
63 230SL
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 15:54:18 by J. Huber »
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2007, 16:18:43 »
Originally posted by J. Huber
 ..  Or, where could I get a torpedo 5 etc?

Have you checked the Russian black market? :)  I assume you mean a BGC (british/german/ceramic) fuse, or?
quote:
Oops -- why David Gallon of course! (now who is he again?)

See:http://sl113.com/data/show_table.asp?table_name=usr_parts_and_service_suppliers


Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2007, 16:45:13 »
Well it looks kind of torpedo-ish...  :oops:

I just read some stuff on the Web telling me that an over-rated fuse is a pretty bad thing. So guess what? -- I just went and undid what I did yesterday! It is now just a matter of plugging into the old wire (that has a 5 amp in line fuse by the way) or the new one to the auxilliary box. Once I find a 5 AMP BGC, I will switch again... anyone have one handy?

(or whatever size goes to a Europa II).

James
63 230SL
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 16:47:14 by J. Huber »
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2007, 18:05:24 »
James,
if I understood correctly your radio supply wire has an in-line 5A fuse. Why don't you plug that one into the aux. fuse box that has the 8A fuse until you get the correct BGC? It should still do its job, that is, protect your radio at more than 5A currents .. and you wont miss any of your favorite tunes.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2007, 19:52:38 »
Hey Alfred. I thought of that. However, I think the in line one is a (brace yourself...) cylinder-ish kind. You know, the American kind: glass with metal ends... Would that work in the aux. box?

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2007, 20:05:27 »
Hi James,
those are called AGU (or AGC) fuses and will not work in the aux. fuse box. But what I had in mind is to temporarily wire your 5A in-line fuse between the out terminal on the aux. box and the radio. Is that possible?

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
« Last Edit: September 29, 2007, 20:05:40 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2007, 22:00:14 »
Well, Alfred, it may very well be possible. I just have no idea where the other side of the in-line connector runs. Somewhere back into the abyss of spaghetti. I may have an extra in-line connector though -- are you suggesting I could run an 8 in the box but have the 5 in-line? I think that is essentially what I had before -- only to the main box...

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

66andBlue

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2007, 08:07:59 »
Yes, wire the fuses in series, that's what I had in mind James.
Also check your email about fuses.
Alfred

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

J. Huber

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Re: Ignition/Radio Question
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2007, 13:39:19 »
Thanks Alfred. Just put a 5 amp in line... Had to take a nice Sunday morning drive to test it out! It seems to work fine. I will be looking for something in the "mail."

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL