Where are the window rattle adjustors?

[userzweig]

Hi,

I read some old posts about there are a couple or three little plastic adjustors that can reduce the window rattle.  I have just taken off the inside door panel, and I was able to get the window to go up to the right height, but I'm having trouble locating the little plastic tension adjustors.  Is there supposed to be a 'front' one near the handle or lock?  Is there also a 'back' one?  Are they inserted in a hole in the track?  

I have a feeling that mine are missing, and it'd be nice to get some new ones and get rid of the rattles, but I'm not sure I'd know where to put them.

(Also, is there a 'jaw' that holds the plastic 'spacer'? -- I have an old Stoddard catalog that seems to indicate this.)

Bruce

[mdsalemi]

Bruce, we are at odds here.  YOU have your door apart, but lack the parts to eliminate the rattles!  I have the parts but don't have the door apart!

Contact Ray Paul at Bud's Benz, they sell a window rattle elmination kit which consists of 4 pieces of felt like tracking which you use to replace what is or isn't there.  $42 does both doors.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[ted280sl]

Bruce,
  You should have a jaw on the leading edge of the window and the rear edge of the window. There is a hole on the inside of each jaw to adjust the plastic glides. The holes are hard to find and you may have to move the window up and doen to find them but, thay are there. The felt tracking I believe that Michael referred to is an after market solution. I have no experience with it. I would suggest trying to locate the adjuster screws first.
Best of luck,
Ted
1969 280SL w/ windows that work properly
PS: I was in Brussels last weekend and saw a beautiful white Pagoda with a custom panel over the shift lever. This panel had extra switches. I was hoping the owner might see this and let me know what the switches operate.

[66andBlue]

Bruce,
heed Michael's advice and call Ray Paul at Budsbenz.com. He'll explain  how the "felt" guides work and how to install them.
After spending too many $$ at the local shop to have my windows fixed, and later too much time to do it myself, I "retired" the guide jaws and  put the felt guides in. No probelms ever since.

quote:Originally posted by mdsalemi

Bruce, we are at odds here.  YOU have your door apart, but lack the parts to eliminate the rattles!  I have the parts but don't have the door apart!

Contact Ray Paul at Bud's Benz, they sell a window rattle elmination kit which consists of 4 pieces of felt like tracking which you use to replace what is or isn't there.  $42 does both doors.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[userzweig]

Thanks for the advice.  I ordered a set from Benz Bins today, and I'll post the results when we get them on.

Bruce

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by mdsalemi

.... they sell a window rattle elmination kit which consists of 4 pieces of felt like tracking which you use to replace what is or isn't there.

So, how does this work?  The felt simply wraps around the base of the window, is glued in place, and is the proper thickness to fill the verticle window tracks/guides?  Is it that simple?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello, Bruce,

If you have the door apart and you did not find the glass guides at the bottom of the door, then it means they are still stuck to the glass (unless somebody else got there first and chucked them [!]). If you want to use the felt anti-rattle channels, these guides need to be off the glass, otherwise the will just push the felts out when you raise the glass. Taking the guides off may break the glass!!


Download Attachment: DrGlass004.JPG
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The adjusting screws on the guides can be accessed thru the hole on the aluminum drain channel (see picture). The front guide has one screw while the rears have two. Wind the glass up or down till you see the slot of the screw thru the hole. Tighten fully and then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn to get smooth movement.
There is also one more adjuster on the top front guide at the top of the door aperture. The inner whisker will have to come to access that one.
Hope this helps.
Happy fixing

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[66andBlue]

Rodd,
it is simple indeed, although the strips do not wrap around the base of the window. They are glued in place in "U" channels in the guides behind the rain gutters. (The metal pieces shown in the attached picture).
When I installed my set I found it necessary to disassemble the gutters and guide and remove all the accumulated grime and old grease before gluing in the strips.  It is also is a good idea to replace the cloth strips (I used medical adhesive tape) between the gutter and guide to prevent rattling noise.
The original picture comes from an article on the German web site:
http://www.pagodentreff.de/artikel/tuerauseinanderbauen.html
and the credit belongs to Detlef H.
 


Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[mulrik]

OK the felt that is being mentioned in this post is that just regular felt you can buy in any decent hobbyshop (for women...) or is there a MB part number? I suppose you glue it on to the window with epoxyglue?
Thanks!!

'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

[Naj ✝︎]

Mulrik,

 

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
OK the felt that is being mentioned in this post is that just regular felt you can buy in any decent hobbyshop (for women...) or is there a MB part number?  

Better chances if you try a place selling car restoration interior parts.
Its the window channel used in 50/60/70s cars and sold by the metre.

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by mulrik

OK the felt that is being mentioned in this post is that just regular felt you can buy in any decent hobbyshop (for women...) or is there a MB part number? I suppose you glue it on to the window with epoxyglue?
Thanks!!

'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

No it is not "regular felt" but reinforced. Contact Ray Paul at Bud's Benz (RayBenz113B@aol.com) for more details.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[tuultyme]

I am planning on replacing the original glass guides with the "felt" guides (received via Ray Paul/Bud's Benz).  Currently my guides are still pretty much on the window.  Does anyone know what to use to loosen the adhesive to remove them; I do not want to use any mechanic method to avoid breaking the glass.  Ray Paul said to glue the "felt" guides, top and bottom, what type of adhesive would work?

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by tuultyme

I am planning on replacing the original glass guides with the "felt" guides (received via Ray Paul/Bud's Benz).  Currently my guides are still pretty much on the window.  Does anyone know what to use to loosen the adhesive to remove them; I do not want to use any mechanic method to avoid breaking the glass.  Ray Paul said to glue the "felt" guides, top and bottom, what type of adhesive would work?

Bruce; 268Blaugrun(green) 1970 280SL; IL

Bud's kit is simply welting that is/was used on all old cars of the 40's as felted tracking that the glass rides up on.  You can see this stuff on old cars where the glass on the door is fully framed: the welting provides the smooth bearing surface in which the glass rides.  There's no magic to Bud's kit, which is simply 4 pieces of this stuff.  I believe the stuff is actually called "window felt" and somebody must make the stuff and sell it by the foot.  For those that have not seen it, it is a combination of metal, rubber and felt.

I got the Bud's kit and am not exactly happy with it.  When the window is all the way up there is very little support of the glass, thus you can wobble it back and forth.  This might be alleviated a bit if you very carefully compress the welting to form a firm fit on the glass.

I used silicone rubber adhesive to glue the welting into the track.  If you've had things apart you might find a lot of issues inside the door as I did with mine; all kinds of things needed cleaning and lubrication, the tracks needed de-rusting.

I have not been able to get the window re-adjusted properly.  I can't close it with the glass all the way up as the top of the glass won't fit into rubber weatherstripping on the soft top.  I have to have it down a bit before closing the door.  If I adjust it a bit lower there's a "crack" at the front seal.  I gave up for the moment, saving my pennies to take it to Gernold.

Another issue I found was the rattles--I thought it was the old clamps on the glass but this was not the case.  In my case the rattles were only when the glass was all the way down, and it was the metal arms of the lifting mechanism hitting the bottom of the door; then telegraphing the vibrations througout the entire glass and door internals.  I put some padding on the bottom of the door as a cushion.  If I adjusted it so the bottom of the lifting mechanism doesn't hit the bottom of the door, the glass was not all the way down!  Jeez!

I should have left it all alone!  Needless to say I have not been in a rush to do the passenger side yet.

BTW my original clamps were firmly fixed to the glass but when loosened by the screw just came off with no persuasion.  If yours are firmly stuck, these are not the source of your rattles and I'd think twice about what you are getting into!

The attached photo shows the welting glued into the two tracks, but before trimming.

Download Attachment: Door Internals Small.jpg
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Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[DavidBrough]

Hi Michael,

Your comments on the Buds kit are very interesting as I was seriously considering getting one or trying to locate something similar in the UK but now I’m not so sure.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

I recently repaired my drivers door window as this had developed an increasing tendency to rattle and was quite easy to move from side to side when fully up. In outcome, the rear guide jaw had come off the window. This was quite easy to glue back on but the subsequent realignment of the window was a real pain and made me look at the Buds kit as a future alternative. I found that the front of the window would not go high enough as further movement was prevented by the rear stop once that was set to the correct height. In fact it seems that the only purpose of the front adjuster is as a wind down stop. I eventually set the window as high as I dare at the back and left it just proud of the whiskers when down. This just sealed the front and prevented any rattles when down. However, there were many hours in between these two states where the window was way out of alignment front to back and kept falling out of the guides when wound down. I still don’t know what I did to stop this but it took a very long time. I found that the bottom mounting for the guide rails, the positioning of the glass in its bottom support plates and the shims at the top of the back rail gave too many possibilities for adjustment. As ever, I think the resolution came after a cup of tea and an hours rest. After that I did something that just worked and once the front to back alignment was correct the height was quite easy. My window is now rattle free and completely solid when fully wound up. I still have a squeak of wind noise with the hard top though and need to adjust the soft top to fit. Dare I now try the passenger side.



David Brough
1969 280SL





Hi Michael,

Your comments on the Buds kit are very interesting as I was seriously considering getting one or trying to locate something similar in the UK but now I’m not so sure.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

I recently repaired my drivers door window as this had developed an increasing tendency to rattle and was quite easy to move from side to side when fully up. In outcome, the rear guide jaw had come off the window. This was quite easy to glue back on but the subsequent realignment of the window was a real pain and made me look at the Buds kit as a future alternative. I found that the front of the window would not go high enough as further movement was prevented by the rear stop once that was set to the correct height. In fact it seems that the only purpose of the front adjuster is as a wind down stop. I eventually set the window as high as I dare at the back and left it just proud of the whiskers when down. This just sealed the front and prevented any rattles when down. However, there were many hours in between these two states where the window was way out of alignment front to back and kept falling out of the guides when wound down. I still don’t know what I did to stop this but it took a very long time. I found that the bottom mounting for the guide rails, the positioning of the glass in its bottom support plates and the shims at the top of the back rail gave too many possibilities for adjustment. As ever, I think the resolution came after a cup of tea and an hours rest. After that I did something that just worked and once the front to back alignment was correct the height was quite easy. My window is now rattle free and completely solid when fully wound up. I still have a squeak of wind noise with the hard top though and need to adjust the soft top to fit. Dare I now try the passenger side.



David Brough
1969 280SL

[Mike]

I got rid of the jaw things and installed the welting material from Bud's.  It has worked out fine for me and I have no complaints.  I confess that, when I took my doors apart and saw how the jaw things had each fallen off causing the galss to wobble and rattle, I immediately bought the welting stuff rather than attempt to reattach the jaws.  I have no complaints with my wondows now.

Mike

[DavidBrough]

Thanks Mike, that's interesting to know. I think I will try and source some of the channelling from classic suppliers here in the UK and give it a try on the passenger side.


David Brough
1969 280SL

[pauldridge]

I just bought the rubber channel inserts also, and have installed one side..mine was easy, because all of the guide channels were missing from the glass.  Sure is a simple installation, and the glass sits very snugly.

My only gripe was the pretty outrageous price of $90+ for what amounts to about 6 feet of off-the-shelf window channel.  I know our suppliers have to make a profit, but that price seems a little usurious.

So, I did a bit of internet research, and found a site that sells similar channel (same dimensions) in 6 or 8 foot lengths (I'd recommend 8 feet)... check out www.stanpro.com  I found two styles that should work just fine:  number 5V or Y658X  They don't publish prices, but I have to believe a single length couldn't be over $20-30.
Phil

230SL, 59 Jag MK IX, 65 Stingray Roadster, 89 Carrera Cabriolet

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by pauldridge

 ...My only gripe was the pretty outrageous price of $90+ for what amounts to about 6 feet of off-the-shelf window channel.  I know our suppliers have to make a profit, but that price seems a little usurious.

Hi Paul,
That is indeed a hefty mark-up. I paid Paul Rey (I believe before he joined Bud's) about $50 with shipping a couple of years ago, so it is good to have an alternative supplier when prices go out of sight.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic