Author Topic: Tires - Another one bites the dust  (Read 14674 times)

hauser

  • Guest
Tires - Another one bites the dust
« on: April 29, 2008, 00:32:51 »
Looks like the Michelin Harmony has been discontinued in a 195/75/14.  :evil:

1969 Euro 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7059
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 13:26:35 »
Hauser,

Even the Smart ForTwo--about as small as they get--comes with 15" tires these days.  So does a Toyota Corolla.  Ford Focus is 16".  An SLK has a 17".  Pimp my ride Hummers have 20-22". It's a wonder that any 14" tires are still made.[:(!]

There's always our friends at Coker.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

hauser

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 17:33:50 »
Eventually our only choice may be the Coker tire.  

Other than Mike Salemi's rants and raving about the Coker there doesn't seem to be much feedback on them.

1969 Euro 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

glennard

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 17:43:50 »
Coker had nice antiques at Amelia Island.

psmith

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 00:18:13 »
Don't forget Vredestein and Cooper.  They even have a 185R14  

http://www.tiresbyweb.com/default.aspx

Pete S.

Richard Madison

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NY, New York
  • Posts: 1181
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 03:19:19 »
The Michelin Harmony is also discontinued in 205/70R14.  A few still in stock but that's all.

Richard M, NYC
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7059
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 05:13:52 »
quote:
Originally posted by hauser

Eventually our only choice may be the Coker tire.  

Other than Mike Salemi's rants and raving about the Coker there doesn't seem to be much feedback on them.

1969 Euro 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.


Other than I have the "Michelin XYZ and like them" or "I bought a set of Vredestein ZYX and they are great" there's not really much objectively anyone can say about tires without skidpad and braking tests performed on the same car.  That would be interesting but no idea of how this could or would be done properly.

For our newer members, there's a thread called Tire Nirvana that has perhaps the greatest "weigh in" of everyone on the subject of tires but I fear that a lot of tires named in that thread are NLA.

I won't rehash it all here--go to that thread if interested--but the Cokers for me solved what I perceived to be a handling problem with Pirelli P400's and they were the only proper sized tires with the proper whitewall.  Alas even those Pirelli's in the 195, 205-70-14 size at least, are NLA, too.

Many find whitewalls a horrific insult to good taste.  I kind of like the studio shots of the 230SL taken in 1963-1964 with "Gangsta" whitewalls.  Really sets off all that extra chrome you can't find on the 280SL... ;)   Those were European shots, too...

But proper sized tires are becoming increasingly scarce.  I suspect the Cokers will be around for a long time because of the fact that they reproductions and low volume.

What I surmise might actually happen is we'll find more modern sized tires on different wheels--it will take a wheel manufacturer to figure that one out.  Sometimes you see these 50-series low profile tires on eBay cars.  I also see, everytime I exit my Costco, a pile of low-profile tires that I swear look smaller than my 14" ones but are 15" or 16".  Don't know what kind of wheels would fit however.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

paulr

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 06:39:49 »
Michael,

as a matter of interest, why haven't you used the Michelin 185 HR 14 with the rub strip which I understand is the nearest to the original that there is ?

paulr
1970 280 SL
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 06:41:03 by paulr »

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7059
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 10:15:23 »
quote:
Originally posted by paulr

Michael,

as a matter of interest, why haven't you used the Michelin 185 HR 14 with the rub strip which I understand is the nearest to the original that there is ?

paulr
1970 280 SL


Hi Paul,

Which Michelin tire do you speak of?  Remember, I purchased the tires (Coker) about 3-4 years ago.  At the time there were no Michelins that I found in the proper size (185HR-14); none at all with the rub strip; and none with these combinations and the requisite (for me) 3/4" WW.

Some discontinued tires, Michelin among them, are being made by firms such as Coker, and also Michelin has a classic tire catalog and in that catalog there lists availability of a 185-14 XAS- derived tire with the MXV-P tread pattern.  The size is right, but there isn't a photo; there is no WW available, and only 2 are available in the USA at the moment at a price of $306.00 each.  That's a bit more than the Coker Phoenix I'm afraid.  I don't know if it has the rub strip.  The only place in the USA to get these vintage Michelin tires made by Michelin?  Coker...and they don't list it either, but they do have it as Michelin's vintage rep in the USA.

The Coker Phoenix (after the Firestone-Phoenix) was specifically made by Coker for vintage Mercedes of the era, the W113 being only one example.  While the Coker isn't an original RA60 or Firestone Phoenix, it was made as a reproduction of those tires; it was made in cooperation and consultation with the German Mercedes "Old-Timers" Club.  Basically it is a full radial (not half as the originals) but has a stiff sidewall.  Second and current generation has the rub strip; the first models did not.  The Michelin noted is merely a low-volume [and high priced] continuation of itself, as it were.  It's probably an excellent tire as the MXV-P was, but doesn't meet the criteria of appearance that I deem important for me and my car.  At $306 each it's no surprise that it isn't heavily advertised by Coker or Michelin.  That's pretty expensive, considerably more so that the $219 Coker Phoenix.  Even some large, fancy performance tires for Porsches rarely exceed the $250 mark...tires for a late model AMG are up in that $300+ range.

(Hauser: yes another Coker rave [not rant] by Salemi! :D )

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 10:18:39 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

paulr

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2008, 12:35:06 »
Hello Michael

It is the expensive Michelin MXV-P that has the rub strip, currently $308 each. Ridiculous!
I bought 4 just before they went up again. I also bought 4 more wheels that I have had restored and am waiting now to wear out my Michelin Energy Tyres before they go on. Probably after my Italy trip in the summer

By the way, package arrived safely, thank you.

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/productPage.php?productID=714&categoryFilename=radial.php


paulr
1970 280 SL
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 12:39:13 by paulr »

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7059
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2008, 14:21:46 »
Well Hey--at least the tire (or tyre as you might say) is similarly priced in both UK and US.

Paul, you should take a close-up photo of the tire on the car; the rub strip etc. for us to see.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

paulr

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2008, 14:49:32 »
I will when they go on. They are in storage at my mechanics at the moment.

Talking of expensive, have you seen the $925 radio delete plates on ebay? I thought there was a recession on !

paulr
1970 280 SL

Bob G ✝︎

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 02:24:26 »
I located four correct Bundt alloy wheels and metal center caps. Now since my car has a set of five like-new Michelin Rainforce 185 TR 14 radial tires, I am considering swapping these tires to the Bundt alloy wheels and purchasing Coker 185 HR 14 Phoenix whitewall tires with the steel wheels and wear down the Rainforce tires and go for the Michelin XAS tires from Colker tire.

Bob Geco
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 03:45:49 by 280SL71 »

JamesL

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, London, London
  • Posts: 3611
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 04:40:30 »
It so happens I too run the MXV 185 14s

This is the closest shot I have of one...





James Lester
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

RBYCC

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 12:03:03 »
quote:
Originally posted by Bob G

I located four correct Bundt alloy wheels and metal center caps. Now since my car has a set of five like-new Michelin Rainforce 185 TR 14 radial tires, I am considering swapping these tires to the Bundt alloy wheels and purchasing Coker 185 HR 14 Phoenix whitewall tires with the steel wheels and wear down the Rainforce tires and go for the Michelin XAS tires from Colker tire.

Bob Geco



Bob

That is exactly what I'm planning to do...if I ever get around to refinishing the Bundt alloys !!!

The white walls look very USA "period" with the painted caps...the Bundts and black walls give more a Euro look..

ED A.
1971 280SL
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO
1990 C43 AMG
2003 G55 AMG

Longtooth

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 23:42:31 »
Really, really sorry & dismayed to hear about the discontinuances of the 14" Micheline tires.  I had a set of MXV 205/70 14's I bought when I bought the car in '84 that were great .... side-walls were stiff, rub strip, etc.  Unfortunately, their age and fact that I'd let the car sit idle in the garage on them for nearly 16 years along with the fact that I drive fast 98% of the time gave me a bit of nerves that they'ed come apart while at some high speed some-day... wrecking the car, and even perhaps me... all for failure to replace the tires. .. wrecking the car is not an option for reasons like running on known 24 year old and possibly defective tires.

So I bought some 205/70 14 Yokohama Avid T4's... a step above the touring tire version.  Sorry to say they don't hold a candle to to the MXV's I had... softer ride, but much poorer cornering and responsiveness...  wishy-washy feel... what a difference!   I jacked up the pressure to 36 psi all around to help the cornering and responsiveness... ride got harsher, but cornering only improved a little bit and responsiveness didn't seem to improve at all.

So next time out of the gate I'll be forking over whatever Coker's charging for the Micheline MVX's.  On the other hand, by that time I might be pushing 80 (age) so maybe I'll have outgrown my penchant for high speeds by then... but I doubt it.

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
The 6% Club - Best of the Best
'02 SL500 Sport

Richard Madison

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NY, New York
  • Posts: 1181
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2008, 04:38:04 »
For you tire buffs, here are pix of two historic tires.

A Tire with the curb (kerb) rub strip and an unused vintage tire with the original "new tire" stripes still on the tread.

Both pix taken at Tom's Alexandra VA gathering a few years ago.

Richard M, NYC

Download Attachment: TireTemp1.jpg
26.68 KB

Download Attachment: TireTemp2.jpg
22.18 KB
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

Peter van Es

  • Honorary Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Netherlands, North Holland, Nederhorst Den Berg
  • Posts: 4076
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2008, 08:48:24 »
Both pictures have been in the Technical Manual for yonks now...

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

Richard Madison

  • Associate Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NY, New York
  • Posts: 1181
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 08:56:13 »
Peter:

Sorry to clutter up the precious and valuable storage space. I took the photos and didn't know they had found a home in the Tech Manual...
and anyway, how long is a "yonk"...is this a Dutch word for "a long time?"

Richard M  :o)

1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

paulr

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2008, 12:40:31 »
Oh dear, I notice that the Mercedes star on your wheel trim is upside down !

 
quote:
Originally posted by Tosh

It so happens I too run the MXV 185 14s

This is the closest shot I have of one...





James Lester
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather



paulr
1970 280 SL

hill

  • Guest
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2008, 21:42:08 »
Unless your showing your car every week. Try Sumitomo HTR's 200 or 400 style to drive and keep factory replacement for shows. Steel wheels are cheap.

Happy Benzing
Darryl, Hill
350 SL4.5 #60
1967 250sl "California"

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson
  • Posts: 7059
Re: Tires - Another one bites the dust
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2008, 07:58:38 »
It's a bit extreme to keep a set of tires for "show" and a set for driving, when the "show" tires are excellent driving tires!  There are hardly that many shows where it would matter anyway--only ones where Mercedes are relatively exclusive.

Also--at least as far as the Coker goes (less costly than the MXV) it's whitewall.  Some of us won't have blackwall tires, so the Sumitomo--nice though it may be--won't do.

Thankfully I have not had to buy a set of steel wheels, but I did buy a few 3 years ago.  Rusted and bent.  Good ones are not easy to find.  In fact, Pete Lesler, MBCA President and Concours chair for the MBCA too, noticed my set of excellent steel wheels in my garage last year (I moved to the pressed aluminum ones) and said "don't get rid of those wheels, good ones are getting hard to find!"

So, on the shelf they stay.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV