Author Topic: engine swaps  (Read 14177 times)

i want my moms w113

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engine swaps
« on: September 08, 2008, 23:41:37 »
is there anyone who has swapped a 350 or other american motor into these cars. a friend told me its pretty common but after looking for quite some time i have found nothin, any help is greatly appreciated :?:
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 03:26:43 by 280SL71 »

seattle_Jerry

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 01:28:28 »
Its a great way to invest another $5,000 to $10,000 on a car that is worth $20,000 to make it worth $10,000. There is no point. The amount of time and money you would invest doing the mods could easily pay for a rebuilt stock engine.

If you want to ram an american v8 into a euro convertible, buy an MGB and put the Rover V8 in it. It is an aluminum V8 originally from the buick wildcat. The factory made some like this so it is acceptable and doesn't destroy the value.

J. Huber

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 14:36:23 »
quote:
Originally posted by i want my moms w113

is there anyone who has swapped a 350 or other american motor into these cars...


That may just explain why Mom doesn't want you to getting a hold of her 230SL!
James
63 230SL

i want my moms w113

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 19:26:58 »
i kind of figured that would be the response but either way thanks for the info. the only reason i was considering this as an option would be because the car is rotted out on the bottom and all the interior is in shambles. so it would be more or less taking a destroyed car and customizing it for maximum performance (and a whole lot cheaper) versus taking a destroyed car and retoring it. do you know if anyone on this forum has done a swap like that. i saw a photo of a lexus swap and it looked pretty tight in the engine bay. do you guys even think it will fit

Paddy_Crow

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 20:00:02 »
Do we think WHAT will fit? A Chevy 350 small block? Lengthwise, it'll probably fit. The width of a 90 degree V8 is another matter altogether. I doubt anyone who hasn't tried it could answer definitively, but I'm willing to bet you'll need to do a LOT of cutting. Just thinking of the distance between the shock towers. A 60 degree V6 would have a better chance. Height could be a problem, but in theory a vee engine shouldn't be as tall as an I6.

You're talking about completely re-engineering the entire powertrain and everything that fits around it. On top of that, you're probably adding a lot of weight and changing how it's distributed, so the stock suspension probably won't do. You're going to need to do a LOT of custom fabrication, from one end of the car to the other. If you've got the ability to do that, the approval of this forum shouldn't really matter to you. Check with a group of Boyd Coddington fans, they will be better equipped to advise you.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 20:14:34 by Paddy_Crow »

seattle_Jerry

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 23:41:42 »
When you say it is rusted out on the bottom, do you mean the floor boards or the actual structural supports? How about some pics?

You will have to fix the rust anyway regardless of any engine swap. The last thing you want is more power in a body that is weakened by rot.

The interior isn't all that involved to redo either.

The Buick/Rover aluminum small block was actually lighter than the MGB 4 cylinder.

How many horses do you need?

Naj ✝︎

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 04:52:31 »
Here's an MB 5 litre aluminum block engine in a 230 shell.
I was told this engine is lighter than the original I6 cast iron block engine.



naj
68 280SL

philmas

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 17:21:12 »
Quote
Originally posted by naj

"Here's an MB 5 litre aluminum block engine in a 230 shell.
I was told this engine is lighter than the original I6 cast iron block engine."

Is it a 5.0 litre V8 as mounted on a w107 450SL 5.0?

Looks good anyway...I'd love one too!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 17:32:31 by philmas »
Philippe from Paris
Euro '71 280SL manual 4sp

Mike Hughes

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 17:44:40 »
Megatronix puts a modern M-B V6 and autobox in Pagodas.  They also have already done the suspension and body engineering PLUS they will restore your existing body shell and upgrade your interior and sound system in the bargain!
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havana Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

seattle_Jerry

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 21:16:59 »
I don't know what the obsession with V8's is...I'd take a twin turbo 6 over an 8.

Naj ✝︎

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 02:47:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by philmas

Is it a 5.0 litre V8 as mounted on a w107 450SL 5.0?

Looks good anyway...I'd love one too!



I believe it was from a W126 500SE

naj
68 280SL

Benz Dr.

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 16:08:47 »
The last time I saw a 230SL that had a V8 conversion started, it never got finished. I sold the car to a guy and it disapeared only to turn up in a scrap yard cut into two pieces. And, it had a completely new body shell and new floors. I was under the impression that he had a rusty car and was going to use the shell and install his parts from the car he had.

The guy who started the conversion cut the rad cradle away, nose piece out, big hole in the side on the tunnel for the shifter, cut the idler arm mount off and notched out the sub frame 4 or 5 inches to clear a Dodge 340's oil pan. All of this could have been fixed but it was a real hack job.

I used all the parts from the car and the rest ended up as scrap eventually. And that's why I sort of try and point people in another direction. It's not like you begin with the intention to destroy the car or anything like that, but few if any of these ideas ever make it to completion. I've seen some of these cars and most aren't done well or all that safe to drive in some cases.
 
This a car that's worth more original or as parts if it's a complete mess. Highly modifed cars are deeply discounted at auction and by the general 113 crowd inless they're done to high ( think Mectronics ) standards.
It's simply the way it is and not likely to change. If you can actually do it and make it work then you have to consider that you could have done it to original standards since you must have the skills to do difficult work. Following that logic, there's little reason to modify it.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

philmas

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 18:24:08 »
I basically agree with you, Dan.
Very few of these projects come to a happy end!
Though,retrofitting a period correct 3.5 l V8 on a pagoda doesn't sound like a heresy to me, as this engine came from stock on MB sedans of the era.

Same old story...
As I read somewhere in this forum, some will consider  it would have been the "natural" evolution of the 113 series, hadn't MB decided to replace it and make the w107.

We know Beethoven was disappointed with the poor sound of the pianoforte, and  demanding  for a more modern instument: nowadays,nobody gets shocked when hearing the sonatas played on a grand Steinway... :)
Philippe from Paris
Euro '71 280SL manual 4sp

i want my moms w113

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 20:02:58 »
i really do appreciate the feed back and as for a turbo v6. i had bad luck. 93 300 zx vg30dett . to actualy see boost you end up putting alot of strain on the internals, as for now i like n.a. and mike thanks for the advise, im going to look into Megatronix. i definitly have a lot to consider and i will not start a project that i cant finish so it could be a while. i already am liking this forum. a lot of experience i can see. thanks again guys. oh and ill try to take some pics with my phone tomorrow

i want my moms w113

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 20:05:33 »
oh and as for how many horses i would like to se,,,, somewhere in the high 200 low 300 range. do you guys think thats to much. i also wouldnt mind having a little torque monster  :D

Benz Dr.

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2008, 22:09:49 »
A 3.5 V8 is an aceptable engine to use. Period correct and will look right in the car. It has about 240 HP so it's just right for the car. 300 would be dangerous in a car like this.

Just a thought on how much work you can get into:
A customer said, '' Here, put this in my car. The guy I bought it from said it will only take 8 hours and you don't have to drill any holes. ''

I knew that none of this would be true because you can't install A/C without drilling holes through the firewall and there are holes needed for evaporator drainage. I said yes but I wish that I hadn't.

After removing the hood, rad, fan, pulleys and a number of other things I started assembly. First thing I found was the fan pulley was rubbing on a screw for the water pump. Take it all apart replace the original screw and assemble again. Now the pulley is hitting the AC bracket. Remove the fan and pulley again and place 4 washers under the pulley to shim it out. Ever try fitting one of those visco fans with 4 washers hanging on the screws?
So we finally got that all on and mounted the AC pump. Turned the fan blades and they were hitting the AC pump. Ground off a bunch of metal on the fan blades until everything cleared...
 
Installed the rad and then the AC condensor. Had to remove some metal around the air filter canister so the bracket holding the condensor in place would fit better. Finally got the brackets bent into the right shape and had the condensor so it would fit OK. All of this took most of one day.

I had instructions that were idiot proof but this idiot couldn't follow them. It said  'install short hoses ' but they were all short, although they were labeled. There wasn't any diagrams to follow. Called the guy who made the kit and he told me how to mount them which worked OK.
Had to get some PAG oil to coat the threads - that stuff is espensive. I also had to get a 1 3/8'' hole saw for the hoses to run through the dash. Took me a while to find one. Tried to drill the hole and the drill broke. Got another drill and finally got that sorted out. Two days in now, messing with this thing.

 Finally got all the hoses in and installed the under dash unit. Had to drill two big holes in the dash and feed the hoses in. Some more holes drilled under the dash to mount that plus some wires to hook up.
Pull the fuse box and somehow manage to get a wire from the blower motor hooked on. Fan runs and AC comes on!

Hook up the dryer but I don't know which way to mount it. The dryer has an 'IN ' side which comes from the condensor which took another call to find out. ( can you tell I know everything about AC? )
Then I have to figure out a way to mount the dryer which is just sitting there beside the coolant tank. A number of plastic tie straps finally hold it in place.
This took a lot longer than 8 hours but looks good and not a sloppy mess.

I think my only point is, even with help and instructions it's still a custom fit and it wasn't easy to do. I still don't have it charged yet but it should work OK.
 Anything you do outside of stock aplication can be VERY time consuming and often difficult. Anything you do that's a simple routine job can turn into a huge job if something goes wrong. Ever drop a screw into a cylinder or down into the front of the engine? Maybe twist off a bolt in an impossibe place to work? It all happens and you're the guy that has to fix it.....

I'm not telling you or anyone NOT to do these things. Just be prepared for some hard work. It could be fun and rewarding if it works well on the other side or it could be the worse thing you ever did. Have a picture of what you want firmly etched into your mind before you start. Make sure your goals make sense and that it can be done in a way that works and is safe.
The more realistic your goals, the more it's possible to do.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

philmas

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2008, 04:13:32 »
Here is what you might be looking for!

Download Attachment: slarz2006109yc3.jpg
92.71 KB
also check this site
http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/site_info/280SL/
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 05:01:36 by philmas »
Philippe from Paris
Euro '71 280SL manual 4sp

cospinner

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Re: engine swaps
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 11:21:16 »
There is a good article in the December 2008 issue of Hemmings Sports and Exotic Car, pages 36-39, with an in depth study and pics of the two 280SL vehicles that Hatch and Sons converted to a 3.5 V8 version.
Chip in Dallas
1970 280SL Euro