Crankshaft front oil seal

[mulrik]

I have been told by Mercedes that the new front oil seal to the crankshaft is without a flange and that it has part#a0109978947. I'm a little suspisous if this is true??? I would think that a seal without a flange would slip into the sprocket just behind it eventually and be destroyd. Just wondering if anybody has knowledge or an opinion about this (or maybe a partnumber to a seal with a flange???
Thanks guys!!
Ulrik

'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

[TheEngineer]

On my '69 280SL (113044-12-007537 the front seal leaked between the housing and the seal. It had no flange and had been installed by a "qualified & approved" shop. I replaced it by MB P/N 003-997-03-47 which has a flange and applied sealant under the flange. No more leak. IMHO the problem is not so much that the seal may slip, but that it doesn't seal against the split housing without a flange. Please verify that P/N because on my invoice it is just identified as "Seal Ring,VL" and I replaced so many seals.

[Naj ✝︎]

I used a seal from Elring which is an OE supplier to MB.
Their # is 287.202.
It does not have a flange but a lip around 1/2 the diameter of the seal and is reffered to as a dust shield.
The outer edge which seats against the block/sump has  soft serrations that create an effective outer seal. In fact, it was very difficult to press into place. I had to loosen the front row of sump bolts to get it to square up nicely without damaging it.

naj

65 230SL
68 280SL

[mulrik]

Just received this front seal ring from SLS. The previous seal ring had a flange all around whereas this one only has a flange at half the diameter (see picture) Which why is the flange suppose to turn? With the flange up or down???
Thanks
Ulrik


Download Attachment: pak.jpg
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'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

[ja17]

Hello Ulrik,
The flange goes up!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:The front seal lip should be packed with grease

Borrowed from Joe's answer to Raymond's crank question.

65 230SL
68 280SL

[awolff280sl]

In my slow and careful, but admittedly learn-as-you-go (BBB, Haynes, and especially this great forum)approach to restoring my '69 280SL, I have several questions and concerns while getting ready to replace the front oil seal. My local independent MB repair guy will lend me the seal inserter, but the guy who knows these cars is no longer around.
1. Removing the original seal was labor intensive. This seal had a flange, lip, or rim 360 degrees around the crank orifice. This flange sat in the circumferential recession around the crank opening in the block and sump. I don't think the seal had ever been replaced. I had to use an Exacto knife at one point to cut off the flange so that I could get in between the seal and the edge of the block/sump.
Here is a picture with the seal and spacer/race removed:

Download Attachment: seal & spacer removed.jpg
45.1 KB

2. Looking into the crank opening, I can see and feel what appears to be a hard rubber ring or seal adhered to the inside wall of the block and sump on the back side of the circumferential recess. I assume that when the seal is completely removed that there should not be anything else between the  front of the chain and the inside wall of the block/sump.
Here is a picture of what I removed (the flange is not attached since it was removed by knife to get the ring part out), with 2 different types of replacements: (The old spring was removed but is not shown)

Download Attachment: old and new seals.jpg
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Here is a picture of what remains:

Download Attachment: RETAINED SEAL.jpg
41.59 KB

I tried using a seal puller (the double hook/claw tool) to pry it out but it's not going anywhere fast. I am afraid of not being able to remove it in one piece and then leaving broken off fragments behind. If I get it out piecemeal, I am sure that some of it will remain stuck to the inside of the opening, and I can't think of a "right angle scraper" tool that will allow me to prepare the inside back wall of the opening for a new seal.

Am I doing alright so far? Am I approaching this problem correctly? Help please.

Andy
Sarasota, FL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello, Andy,

Seems like a PO has fitted a seal with a metal cage.
If you slacken off the front sump bolts, it would get enough slack to be moved.
Without the seal there is just enough room to remove the sprocket if necessary (sorry, not very sharp picture):

Good luck

naj



68 280SL

[awolff280sl]

Naj,
Thanks. Still have several questions:
1. Why did a PO use a metal cage? Were these routinely used back in the day? Is it possible that if I remove it that the new seal will be too small?
2. What's a PO?
3. After loosening the front sump bolts, I should try to pry out the cage?
4. Is it necessary, or indeed possible, to reseal the block-sump interface after having loosened those bolts?

Andy
Sarasota, FL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello Andy,

1. Why did a PO use a metal cage? Were these routinely used back in the day? Is it possible that if I remove it that the new seal will be too small?

I guess he did not find the correct seal :?:  I've not seen one before but then I've not known Pagodas or for that matter MBs that long. :oops:

2. What's a PO? = Previous Owner

3. After loosening the front sump bolts, I should try to pry out the cage?

Just loosen enough to break the grip on the metal cage and pry out.

4. Is it necessary, or indeed possible, to reseal the block-sump interface after having loosened those bolts?

Hopefully, you won't damage the seal because the rest of the sump will still be well tight...
I tried this once to fit a new seal and it worked for me.

naj




68 280SL

[awolff280sl]

ok, I'll give it a go.
Once I get it out, which goes in first, the race/spacer or the seal?
Thanks again.

Andy
Sarasota, FL

[Benz Dr.]

I wouldn't undo any pan screws. If you do it will leak after you break the seal that was once there. You would have to remove the oil pan and engine to re-seal.

Dan Caron's
 SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
 slbarn.mbz.org
  1 877 661 6061

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:Originally posted by AWOLFF280SL

ok, I'll give it a go.
Once I get it out, which goes in first, the race/spacer or the seal?
Thanks again.

Andy
Sarasota, FL

One should take the more experienced advice from the Good Doctor.  :oops:

naj

68 280SL

[awolff280sl]

I have to apologize to the good members of this forum who took the time to read this post and were likely confused by what they were looking at. In reality, the face on picture of the block shows the original seal devoid of its rubber coating. Once I realized this, I was able to pop out the seal with a screwdriver, no problem.
Thanks for your time. (Just my novice showing)

Andy
Sarasota, FL

[hands_aus]

quote:Originally posted by mulrik

I have been told by Mercedes that the new front oil seal to the crankshaft is without a flange and that it has part#a0109978947. I'm a little suspisous if this is true??? I would think that a seal without a flange would slip into the sprocket just behind it eventually and be destroyd. Just wondering if anybody has knowledge or an opinion about this (or maybe a partnumber to a seal with a flange???
Thanks guys!!
Ulrik

'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

Hi guys,
Just to bring this topic back to life

I am having the front crankshaft seal replaced and I spoke to the mechanic today.
The seal supplied by MB has NO LIP on it. #010 997 89 47

So my question is which seal is the correct one for our cars?
Will the seal without the lip do the job?
Should I get them to use the seal with the LIP?  # 003 997 03 47

I am having the spacer ring replaced at the same time.

Thanks for your help.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL #114, auto, ps , 717,717
BEST OF THE BEST!