Author Topic: 230 x 280 SL  (Read 7201 times)

Fernando

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230 x 280 SL
« on: June 20, 2008, 00:06:00 »
I know that 230 has less power and torque .Read that 230s are know for overheat.Its true?

What about AC - Japonese or original?

Does original work?

My option is manual gear - Less troubles?

Thanks a lot !

Fernando

Richard Madison

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2008, 04:35:08 »
Each car is individual. It is dangerous to make generalizations about an entire model such as all 230's.

Original Air Conditioners were dealer installed usually with a reliable brand of the local country. After many years, an AC might not be working or may need some repair. The Freon or other coolant might need replacing or there may be a leak in the system...not difficult to have repaired. Original Freon coolant is hard to find and quite costly so some have changed the compressor to use a cheaper and environmentally friendly coolant.

The torque is a paper number to me. I don't race the car. When driven, I doubt that many people can really detect a significant performance difference between the three models. A later model may have a bit more torque but also has a bit more weight and more black boxes to help the air quality but these rob a few horsepower so it all evens out.

Overheating is a problem with individual cars not an entire model of cars. There are reasons for overheating and if proper correction or additions are made, most overheating can be controlled.  

Manual transmission was my choice in the two Pagodas I have owned. I enjoy the shifting and fantisize that I have better conrol of the car. I'm not sure manual has fewer problems...auto transmissions are working very well in many cars.

Here is a Topic that discusses the differences in the three models.
http://index.php?topic=8495
     
Richard M, NYC: 1969 280SL Euro version, manual, no AC.
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

J. Huber

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2008, 08:08:28 »
How many of you have seen the Caveman commercial from GEICO where he is in the airport shaking his head as he sees the ad? (might be a US thing)... anyway, thats me right now...

Hi Fernando. Of course, Richard M. is totally right on -- each individual car is different and it would be a mistake to generalize. And while many of us have a bias toward their own model -- we can appreciate the differences that are definable.

If you look into the archives, we have covered a lot of this ad naseum but all I can say is my 230 seems to have plenty of power and torque, the automatic transmission has been virtually trouble free, and the car keeps a steady temp. Every car is different and much depends on how it is maintained. I like 'em all!

Here are the three side by side...
James
63 230SL

waqas

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2008, 09:18:37 »
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber

Here are the three side by side...




Ok I give up!  Which is which....?   :D

Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

paulr

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2008, 09:23:46 »
there's a lot of red white and blue going on....the same colours as in ...now what is it?

Naj ✝︎

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2008, 09:58:50 »
quote:
Originally posted by waqas

Quote
Originally posted by J. Huber

Here are the three side by side...


Ok I give up!  Which is which....?   :D





Caveman driving the 'old' 230.

[:p]

naj
68 280SL

benzportland

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2008, 00:11:30 »
I have a 65 230 Euro spec 4 speed manual, and have not had a problem with heat yet, but it is early in ownership for me.  I've learned from other older Mercedes not to bother with a/c but for some it is a necessity.  As for torque, it's not an issue -  for any W113  :)   Overall, I like all three models, and I actually think the 250sl California Coupes are pretty cool, considering they are relatively rare and different.  I would not mind having one.  Overall, I think I got more for my money going with a 230, and I like some of the subtle differences of the early models - different, more stylish mirrors in my opinion, different wheel covers, etc.  Not to offend anyone with a late 280, but I think the earlier 230's more accurately reflect the original design of the car as well as the time period they were designed.  The more modern wheels, optional Nardi equipment, absence of chrome on the mirror, bigger dials, etc etc of the newer models just don't look right to me.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 00:15:36 by benzportland »

Eryck

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 20:04:31 »
I've had a 230sl for 4 years now and it has never overheated once.

I agree with benzportland on the aesthetic aspects of the early cars but I am bias...

And surprised that Richard M was not biased at all in his fair description of the performance differences between the different models given that he owns a 280sl!

CarlG

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2008, 22:31:25 »
I have a 230sl with AC and drive it in hot and humid Houston weather.  I cannot keep the AC turned on in severe stop and go (meaning mostly stop) traffic in July and August although I have never actually had it overheat.  It just gets up close enough to the red that I will take action.  But the cooling system is doing the job it was designed to do, once it gets moving the guage comes right down.  I can drive all day with the AC on when it is near 100 degrees outside as long as I don't have to stop for long periods. The problem is these cars were not designed for South Texas weather with the AC on in the summer.  From what I have read on this site I don't believe the other models would do any better at cooling in these conditions.  If you live in a cooler locale this won't be a problem.

waqas

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 10:27:17 »
Fernando,

If you search through the forums for old discussions about cooling issues, you'll find various opinions. The general consensus is that when the cars have been maintained well and all cooling passages are unblocked, all the models should fare reasonably well under stop-and-go conditions. However, all models start getting warmer the longer the car is kept standing.

Every model is slightly different:
230SL  -- closest to original engine design of the 220, no oil/water heat exchanger or oil air-cooler (although exchanger was available as an option-- for hotter climates)
250SL  -- oil/water heat exchanger added as standard issue
280SL  -- higher power, fewer water passages (to allow bore increase), but added oil air-cooler next to radiator

Maintenance is a bit more involved with an automatic, but appears straightforward from what I have read in these forums. A manual transmission has no oil filter to replace, and no connection with the throttle, no kick-down, etc, etc.

Both my 230sl's as well as my 250se/c have manual transmissions, but that's my preference. I feel a bit less in control when driving an automatic. I think you should go with what makes you most comfortable driving.

As far as A/C is concerned, neither of my pagoda's has that engine-bay disaster. I'm currently in the process of converting my 250se/coupe from the U-boat era York compressor to a Sanden rotary unit (the York had sprung a leak).

From what I remember, my experience with the A/C in my coupe was similar to CarlG's with respect to stop-and-go traffic. While cruising, the temp needle has always behaved.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 10:34:19 by waqas »
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

Raymond

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Re: 230 x 280 SL
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 07:06:12 »
280 is in the middle with the later turn signals.

As for the air conditioner, I replaced the old Frigi-King piston compressor with a Sanden rotary compressor.  The result is that I get plenty of cooling and there is almost no drag on the engine.  When the old compressor used to kick in, the RPM would drop a few hundred.  (My '68 had no compensator, just a damper)  Now, I don't notice the comprssor unless I am really listening.  The engine heat in stop and go summer traffic is only slightly above normal.  I can run highway speeds all day long in summer heat with the A/C on an not have a problem.

The automatic transmissions of 4 decades ago did rob power between the engine and the rear wheels.  They are heavier and much more complicated.  Still, whether it suits you is a personal preference.
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe