Author Topic: Original Motorshow 230SL Question?? (Read 10184 times)

PaulC · « **on:** June 12, 2008, 06:25:43 »

Hello all,

I have noticed on the footage of the original 1963 W113 show car (I am making a bit of an assumption here!) that there seems to be some sort of badge on the front guard just behind the wheel.

Does anyone know what it says? Or what happened to the original show car??

It has intrigued me for quite a while now…

You can view the footage I am talking about on YouTube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMIStW3Qb9M

or look up: Mercedes-Benz W113 Pagoda roadster 230SL on the YouTube search.

Here are some pictures to see what I am talking about:

Photo 1 the original show car.

Photo 2 the badge.

Paul

Klaus · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2008, 09:10:21 »

Paul,
the badge said MERCEDES BENZ, and the car shown is a prototype, this badge did not make it into series production. The badge can be seen (and read with a magnifying glass) in Engelen's book, 3rd printing 1997, page 129 and 131.
The original show car exhibited at the Geneva show 1963 had serial no. 000001 and was 050 white. It is now alive and well in the Black Forest region of Germany, albeit the present owner had it painted blue in the course of a major restoration. Details about this car and several photos of it, text in German language, can be seen here:
http://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/t1419-nr-1-lebt.html

Mark280SL · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2008, 12:18:15 »

I'm curious about the whitewall tires displayed on this car.... I noted the same/similar tires on a car the classic center in CA. apparently sold recently for a very handsome price.

Were these type of whitewall tires ever an option and can they be considered correct for a pagoda? I don't recall ever having seen them mounted on other pagoda's I have seen previously so I'm wondering what those who have greater expertise then I have may know about this.

Since this car was 000001 does that not qualify it as a benchmark so to speak?

J. Huber · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2008, 13:05:11 »

I played around with every photo edit zoom I have but cannot quite make it out. I am pretty sure the right hand part is a 230SL badge. But there are two characters before that which I can't decipher.

I also find it refreshing that the burgundy 230SL has the driver side pull handle like my 1963.

Douglas · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2008, 13:43:13 »

James,

Klaus pointed out that it says "Mercedes-Benz." Gullwings have that same name plate there, so it's one of those W198-inspired details that never made it into production.

glennard · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2008, 14:32:55 »

Driver's side outside mirror?

rwmastel · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2008, 14:50:00 »

quote:
Originally posted by glennard

Driver's side outside mirror?

In the video link, you can see it's on the fender. 1950's sytle.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2008, 15:26:15 »

If I am not mistaken, "adding" this little detail, however incorrect, is a trademark of Mark Passarelli--at least that's what I've been told.

Mike Webster's restored 230SL has this little detail.

And as for the photo, prior to the Geneva show, there were some shots taken that show up in Engelen's book. My friend, fluent in German, said that the byline in the photo said something about "so nice you'd like to drive it home, but it's clay."

J. Huber · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2008, 22:23:38 »

quote:
Originally posted by Douglas

James,

Klaus pointed out that it says "Mercedes-Benz." Gullwings have that same name plate there, so it's one of those W198-inspired details that never made it into production.

Well, so much for my detective career! It was one of those -- stare at the blur long enough, you start seeing things... Thanks Douglas (and Klaus).

PaulC · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2008, 06:10:30 »

quote:
Originally posted by Klaus

Paul,
the badge said MERCEDES BENZ, and the car shown is a prototype, this badge did not make it into series production. The badge can be seen (and read with a magnifying glass) in Engelen's book, 3rd printing 1997, page 129 and 131.
The original show car exhibited at the Geneva show 1963 had serial no. 000001 and was 050 white. It is now alive and well in the Black Forest region of Germany, albeit the present owner had it painted blue in the course of a major restoration. Details about this car and several photos of it, text in German language, can be seen here:
http://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/t1419-nr-1-lebt.html

Klaus,
Thank you for this information, but I am still a bit confused, if you look carefully at Photo 1, the script on the front right fender/guard/wing appears to be made up of two words, the first word being shorter that the second. Therefore it does not look like it would be the word [MERCEDES] first.
In photo 2 the section of the left hand side fender/guard/wing, it appears to be the other way around, so it could read [MERCEDES BENZ]

It is also very interesting that this car still exists, although I really cannot understand why anyone who owns such a significant car would paint it a different colour, why not just go out and buy a blue one if that’s what you want, it's not like they aren’t around!!

Anyhow thanks again for all the responses.
Happy motoring to all
PC

Douglas · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2008, 06:33:23 »

Paul,

It definitely says "Mercedes-Benz." There are other pix of that prototype circulating, including in the Henry Rasmussen book "Mercedes for the Road." I would guess there's a reflection in the chrome that's making that first word appear shorter.

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2008, 07:06:26 »

Paul,

quote:
if you look carefully at Photo 1, the script on the front right fender/guard/wing appears to be made up of two words, the first word being shorter that the second. Therefore it does not look like it would be the word [MERCEDES] first.

Check out what side is the steering wheel on.....

naj

glennard · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2008, 11:08:41 »

quote:
Originally posted by glennard

Driver's side outside mirror?

Naj, That was my question. A photo reverse? Germans aiming at the Brit market? A clay model? An early digital Photoshop? ?? Trust, but verify!!!

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2008, 15:47:13 »

quote:
Originally posted by glennard

quote:
Originally posted by glennard

Driver's side outside mirror?

Naj, That was my question. A photo reverse? Germans aiming at the Brit market? A clay model? An early digital Photoshop? ?? Trust, but verify!!!

There is no mirror on the driver's door on the youtube shot.

naj

PaulC · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2008, 02:39:41 »

Here is a still from the drivers side.

Photo 3 Left Hand Side

BTW these stills are not from the YouTube clip.

Watching the video again, you can see from the beginning as the car is turning there is some light that appears to move across the car as it rotates. The Badge does in fact look like one long badge.

So thanks to everyone for helping me out.

PC

glennard · « **Reply #15 on:** June 16, 2008, 05:14:45 »

I like the paste on mirror-jumps from side to side. Origin of 'smoke and mirrors'? Who said conversion from RHD to LHD was tough?

Mike Webster · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2008, 14:57:29 »

To add to what Mike Salemi said, I do not care for this...
Download Attachment:

IMG_0522.jpg
113 KB

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #17 on:** June 26, 2008, 02:00:58 »

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Webster

To add to what Mike Salemi said, I do not care for this...
Download Attachment: IMG_0522.jpg
113 KB

Nice picture Mike.

Now, Bob Possel, note the angles at which the plastic insert ends are cut!!!

naj

bpossel · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2008, 03:51:17 »

Thanks Naj,

I wonder if this forward angle cut remained standard for the production run? I have never seen it cut forward before. Always seen the black trim cut at a back angle.

Mike S, I belive yours are cut "back" and not as seen in this original "show" model. Have you heard any comments on these in the shows you have attended?
Bob

Longtooth · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2008, 22:46:39 »

To add a bit from Klaus's observation on this car... as Klaus say's, it's not a "show" car or car used in marketing. It was a '62 design prototype... there were many others, several in clay (that can't be distinguished from any others in photos) ... several versions of prototypes from '61 are also shown in Engelen's book.... all contained the Mercedes Benz name badge, or some other name badge in some cases behind the front fender. One side of the '61 prototype car had different design features than the other side... door profiles, for example, or lack of a name badgee for another. Depending on when the prototypes were assembled, they may have been labeled 220SL on the rear deck.

The tires shown on these prototypes were not radials, but standard whitewhall's from the MB Sedan (7.25 x 13). The exterior mirror placement and style was from the 300SL series. The '61 prototypes also used the same door handles (exterior) the 300SL's had used. One even used the 300SL engine compartment air vents behind the front wheel well (page 123 in Engelen's book).

It's also interesting to note that all these particular prototypes ('61 & '62 versions) had the licence number BB-A 716... I've forgotten what city/district BB stands for but Boeblingen is one of the B's as I recall.

mbz.280sl · « **Reply #20 on:** July 02, 2008, 07:05:03 »

Concerning the license number BB-A 716....BB does in fact stand for the town/village of Boeblingen. It's right next to the village of Sindelfingen which is where the Mercedes factory is and where the SL's were produced. Boeblingen and Sindelfingen use the same license number designation BB.

Eryck · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2008, 19:54:57 »

Thanks for the clip. I have never seen a Pagoda go so fast before. It was actually funny for me to see it driven like that.

Raymond · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2008, 06:59:58 »

Oh, Eryk, you don't know what your missing.

If your car is healthy, find a clear road and try it. The model is up to the challenge...trust me.

News:

Author Topic: Original Motorshow 230SL Question?? (Read 10184 times)

Klaus

Douglas

glennard

Douglas

glennard

glennard

Mike Webster

bpossel

Longtooth

Eryck