Author Topic: Speedo Flicker  (Read 12099 times)

Garry

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Speedo Flicker
« on: November 27, 2007, 05:40:48 »
I have been having trouble with the speedo needle not registering properly with some flicker and occasional correct workings.  Esspecally under power it appears to work fine. but sitting at a steady speed it wil fade away or flicker depending on the day!  I had the cable replaced and also had the speedo overhauled but it has not fixed the problem.  Any suggestions from here?

Thanks
Garry

Garry Marks
Australia
69 280SL Manual
02 320ML
05 A200
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

Naj ✝︎

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 06:17:57 »
quote:
Originally posted by Garry

I have been having trouble with the speedo needle not registering properly with some flicker and occasional correct workings.  Esspecally under power it appears to work fine. but sitting at a steady speed it wil fade away or flicker depending on the day!  I had the cable replaced and also had the speedo overhauled but it has not fixed the problem.  Any suggestions from here?

Thanks
Garry

Garry Marks
Australia
69 280SL Manual
02 320ML
05 A200



Yes, the rear nut on the output shaft of the gearbox is probably loose, causing this problem. The prop shaft and rubber coupling has to be removed to get to the nut. The nut is also very special and has 4 slots - not hex.

naj

68 280SL
68 280SL

Garry

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 06:26:14 »
Thanks Naj,  I will see if I can get it on the hoist again tomorrow and try that.

Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

Naj ✝︎

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 07:01:24 »
quote:
Originally posted by Garry

Thanks Naj,  I will see if I can get it on the hoist again tomorrow and try that.

Garry



You can make one of these to do the job:

Download Attachment: spanner.jpg
27.85 KB

naj

68 280SL
68 280SL

jeffc280sl

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 11:50:25 »
Garry,

Here is some more information along the lines of Naj's comments.

The drive and driven gears for the speedo are located behind and alnog with the rear cover of the transmission.  The drive gear (#75) is not keyed to the output shaft of the transmission.  It is held in position and rotates with the output shaft by contact and friction with the output flange(#100) and 4 pin nut (#102).  See the attached pic.  It the pin nut is loose the drive gear can slip on the output shaft causing the speedo to be erratic.  You need to move the drive shaft out of the way to see the nut.  Once you have gone this far you may want to replace the rear cover gasket and oil seal.  Same can be said for the flex ring and mid drive shaft bearing.

Download Attachment: speedo.jpg
16.25 KB

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

waqas

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 13:44:53 »
Don't forget to inspect the shape of the transmission mount whilst you're down there (easy to replace and relatively cheap).

Waqas in Austin, Texas
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

ja17

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 18:22:06 »
Hello Gary,

At the tech session last summer we correctly diagnosed and identified the same problem with another members pagoda. When Graham got back home he had his mechanic repair his transmission. I sent the following documentation to his mechanic so they he correctly repair the problem. Here is a copy;

If your speedometer has become irratic, and your transmission is not shifting smoothy, the slotted spanner nut on the output flange of the tranmission may have come loose.  This slotted nut holds the entire third fourth gear cluster tight. In addition the drive gear for the speedometer is NOT keyed to the shaft but depends on the tightness of the cluster and slotted nut before it can operate correctly.

Consider inspecting and replacing  the rear tranmission mount, the drive shaft rubber flex disc, and  the rear transmission seal if needed during the transmission work.

Start by removing the multi-bolt tunnel plate and transmission mounting plate. Remove the rear transmission mount and bracket. Remove the 19mm driveshaft bolts.  Pay close attention to the configuration. There are three long bolts and three shorter bolts.  Refer to the information and diagrams for re-assembly.  This must be installed exactly or the rubber disc will not last or will come apart.
 
The drive shaft has a slip joint half way back.  Loosen the 44mm and 46mm slip joint and slide the drive shaft rearward. This will allow you to split the drive shaft at the drive shaft flange/centering bushing connection and enable you to remove the flex disc, and move the drive shaft out of the way.

Download Attachment: assembly.JPG
66.29 KB

Check the slotted spanner nut for tightness. If it is loose it must be re-tightened. A special four prong socket is still available from Mercedes for these nuts. Some mechanics make their own with a die grinder  and a 1/2" drive 1 1/8"   deep well socket.  In a pinch the nut can be driven tight using a drift and hammer (not recomended).  The sheet metal lock ring must be "staked" outward and inward to prevent the slotted nut from comming loose again.

This is a  picture of the speedometer drive gear. Notice it has no keys or teeth on the inside to keep it from spinning on the shaft. The pressure from the tight spanner nut keeps it from spinning. If the spanner nut comes loose the gear can no longer function correctly.

Download Attachment: gear.JPG
73.17 KB

Download Attachment: parts.JPG
69.89 KB

Here is a picture of the gear on the shaft;

Download Attachment: shaft2.JPG
67.95 KB

Before re-instlling the flex disc, check it for conditon also note that the three tabs on the flex disc MUST be postitioned on the three flanges of the transmission out-put shaft (see diagram).

Download Attachment: late11.JPG
52.81 KB

 Notice locations of the long and short diveshaft bolts and the washers. Review the diagrams, this is critical. Notice that three of the washers are positioned under the bolt heads and the other three under the nuts of the other three bolts. In every case the washers are positioned next to the rubber flex disc. The nylock nuts can be reused if the condition is ok and everything is re-assembled correctly. The driveshaft bolts should be quite tight and you may feel the nuts bottom out against the bolt shoulder as you tighten them down.

Download Attachment: eflex 20.JPG
84.64 KB

Here is an excellent photo with text by Bob Possel;

Download Attachment: Bob Pflex disc.jpg
41.1 KB
Pump a bit of grease into the driveshaft end at the Zerk to lubricate the centering bushing assembly.

Install the transmission mount paying attention to the spacer washer between the mount and the mounting plate. Tighten the drive shaft slip joint last after the tranmission is secured.

Good luck!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio











« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 19:05:27 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Garry

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 23:15:04 »
As usual excellent feedback for my problem.  Thanks all for info.
One question that I note in Joe's reply, that it is an auto shift in that context.  Mine is a manual so will the drive gear etc be the same with the slotted nut there doing the same job of keeping the gear clusters and speedometer gear tight?
thanks
Garry

Garry Marks
Australia
69 280SL Manual
02 320ML
05 A200
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

waqas

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 23:40:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by Garry

Mine is a manual so will the drive gear etc be the same with the slotted nut there doing the same job of keeping the gear clusters and speedometer gear tight?


Yes, the slotted nut does the same job in a manual.

Waqas in Austin, Texas
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

waqas

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2007, 23:50:54 »
At the Blacklick tech session this year, Joe disassembled a manual transmission before our very eyes (I was too enthralled to use the camera that was in my hands, as Naj pointed out later). He showed us how the gear cluster was held together.

Joe then proceeded to give a quick tutorial on correct flex-disc orientation, before moving on to the rear axle, and freed-up that injection pump, and ....

Wow, what a weekend... I wish I had a video camera in my head.  These are just a few reasons to not miss the next fabulous Blacklick gathering!

Waqas in Austin, Texas
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

Garry

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2007, 23:55:57 »
Waqas,
Thanks for update,  Would love to attend a Blacklick at some point  but its a long way and needs lots of planning. One day, I would like to think that I will do so given I am in the process of retiring in the next two months.

Garry

Garry Marks
Australia
69 280SL Manual
02 320ML
05 A200
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

ja17

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2007, 11:54:28 »
Hello Gary,

Actually this is a standard shift tranmission in the pictures. Also Waqas is correct the gear is the same on both.

Gary, I really enjoyed my visit to your country a few years back when I ran "The Classic Adelaide Rally, a beautiful place with wonderful and friendly people!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

awolff280sl

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 04:57:52 »
(Rather than start a new thread under the heading of "What next?", I think that I found the right spot for this question).

With my flex disc off, went to look at the tranny output slotted nut so that I could make the tool to re-torque it, and I found this arrangement:





Anyone seen this before (I hope)? How do you loosen it/torque it?
Thanks
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo

mbzse

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2008, 07:28:37 »
quote:
Originally posted by AWOLFF280SL

With my flex disc off, went to look at the tranny output slotted nut so that I could make the tool to re-torque it, and I found this arrangement.../... How do you loosen it/torque it?

Someone was clearly there before you...! :D
Probably they wrecked the original, slotted nut (due to not using a good enough tool).

This on your car is a nut from a more modern M-B (80-ies), where this type of nut is used to lock the rear driving axle, at the rear wheel hub.

Unscrew it with a suitable toothed 12-point deep socket (borrow at local M-B shop perhaps... :?: )

.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 07:49:34 by mbzse »
/Hans S

awolff280sl

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Re: Speedo Flicker
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 09:00:54 »
Hans, thanks so much for coming up with that!
Andy   Sarasota, FL
'69 280SL 4speed
'06 Mitsubishi Evo