New member with questions

[LEFT OVER RICE]

Hello everyone. I know that there's a new members intro section, but I wanted to get answers to questions separate from others so we don't get them mixed up. Anyway, I am a junior in high school and I'm about to get MY OWN CAR   . I fell in love with the w113 last year when a new neighbor moved into the neighborhood and had his towed to the new house. From what he told me, the car belonged to a doctor, who was the original owner. The car was restored in the late 80's afterwhich the owner died a couple of years later. So, the wife drove it for a while. Once she got tired of it, it was parked until 2000 when my neighbor found it and purchased it. Now, it sits in his garage. The car is a faded burgendy on tannish brown interior, has original hard top, runs perfectly with only 63,xxx miles on it. The only problem is he has to install some new shock absorbers. So, I might buy it from him unless I can find a cheaper one that needs more work, which is close to impossible. Anyway, for the questions  

1. Has anyone tried fitting a 4.3l engine from the 300sel? If not, do you guys think it would fit?

2. Does Bilstein make gas shocks for this vehical?

3. For the guys that drive their W113's daily, how do you keep them theft proof?

4. For the guys that drive these in the winter, what do you use or do to protect the body from potential rust and road salts?

5. Other than the 4.3l swap, what other engines are good combo's with this car? I need at least 310 in torque numbers, but the engine has to be stock.

Please answer these questions in the best way possible. My main goals for this car are to make a car that is daily drivable, reliable, and something I can go on the backroads with since I live behind a lot of them. I'm trying to use the hot rod philosophy for this car, so if anyone has sugguestions, please feel free to add them

THANKS

[scoot]

quote:Originally posted by LEFT OVER RICE

Hello everyone. I know that there's a new members intro section, but I wanted to get answers to questions separate from others so we don't get them mixed up. Anyway, I am a junior in high school and I'm about to get MY OWN CAR   . I fell in love with the w113 last year when a new neighbor moved into the neighborhood and had his towed to the new house. From what he told me, the car belonged to a doctor, who was the original owner. The car was restored in the late 80's afterwhich the owner died a couple of years later. So, the wife drove it for a while. Once she got tired of it, it was parked until 2000 when my neighbor found it and purchased it. Now, it sits in his garage. The car is a faded burgendy on tannish brown interior, has original hard top, runs perfectly with only 63,xxx miles on it. The only problem is he has to install some new shock absorbers. So, I might buy it from him unless I can find a cheaper one that needs more work, which is close to impossible. Anyway, for the questions  

1. Has anyone tried fitting a 4.3l engine from the 300sel? If not, do you guys think it would fit?

2. Does Bilstein make gas shocks for this vehical?

3. For the guys that drive their W113's daily, how do you keep them theft proof?

4. For the guys that drive these in the winter, what do you use or do to protect the body from potential rust and road salts?

5. Other than the 4.3l swap, what other engines are good combo's with this car? I need at least 310 in torque numbers, but the engine has to be stock.

Please answer these questions in the best way possible. My main goals for this car are to make a car that is daily drivable, reliable, and something I can go on the backroads with since I live behind a lot of them. I'm trying to use the hot rod philosophy for this car, so if anyone has sugguestions, please feel free to add them

THANKS

Hi Rice -

I hope you don't find my responses too unconstructive.  I strongly suggest you take the time to read as much of the forum as possible to get some of the answers to your questions...   having said that, here are my answers:

1.  Perhaps someone has tried it.  I strongly suspect that this group would not be supportive of such a bastardization.  I myself am a bit horrified.

2.  I think they are Bilsteins.  Shocks are no big deal to get.

3.  I don't think most people drive their 113's daily.  Regarding theft-proof, not possible/practical.  If you have to park outside, particularly at a high school, how are you going to feel when you find an extremely expensive piece of trim missing, your car towed away, or (if unlocked) some nice interior piece missing.   Lots of little things are NLA.  This is not a car that I would park at a high school.

4.  If you are asking about rust from road salt, you are really in need of education regarding rust from water leaks which I think is much more of an issue.  You need to read.

5.  310 torque and keeping it stock is a total contradiction.  Perhaps you should be looking at a 107 car instead of a 113 car.  (450 SL, etc).

best wishes
Scott

[mdsalemi]

Rice,

Scoot's got it all right, but look around on eBay, etc. and you'll sometimes see some hot-rod 113's.

Of course there's always the MSL: http://mechatronik-gmbh.de/en/msl.htm

It's beautiful.  Bring a boatload of cash, however.

[peterm]

I would strongly suggest your first car be one thats not so potentially fragile.  Though I don't doubt your driving skill there is some advantage to experience and things on a pagoda are VERY expensive to fix.  Quirky mechanicals also make daily driver status an issue though its a reliable but still 40 year old car.  Please consider your decision strongly- when my kids started driving I was very interested in safety, air bags are very valuable.  You'll be hanging around with a lot of other 17 yo drivers and in the parking lot they may not be as good about driving and your car could wind up as collateral damage. Keep your passion but save the purchase for now I'd go more practical.

[LEFT OVER RICE]

quote:Originally posted by peterm

I would strongly suggest your first car be one thats not so potentially fragile.  Though I don't doubt your driving skill there is some advantage to experience and things on a pagoda are VERY expensive to fix.  Quirky mechanicals also make daily driver status an issue though its a reliable but still 40 year old car.  Please consider your decision strongly- when my kids started driving I was very interested in safety, air bags are very valuable.  You'll be hanging around with a lot of other 17 yo drivers and in the parking lot they may not be as good about driving and your car could wind up as collateral damage. Keep your passion but save the purchase for now I'd go more practical.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know parts for these cars can be expensive, but thats what utilizing parts from other cars is for. I've never driven one of these cars, but I currently drive a E34 M5 (dads) and I was driving a 87 Buick Grand National last year. I've taken the M to a couple of track days and autox's during the summer. I wanted a car I could build basically from the ground up and improve over time with my driving skills and experiance. But, I'm all ears to you guys, so I'm concidering another vehical just in case.

[LEFT OVER RICE]

Thanks everyone for your responces. Even though I'm being persuaded to buy something else, I still want this car badly. Trying to get it soon because if I go for it in 5 years, he might charge me 15-20K :x . I'd do an engine swap, AMG rotors and calipers, Bilstein shocks, custom sway bars, take out vert top, kill switch, and keep faded paint. Not trying to do a restoration here. I will continue looking on the site for info and to the one who gave me the Mechatronik site, I love it but hate it at the same time LOL.

[scoot]

quote:Originally posted by LEFT OVER RICE

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know parts for these cars can be expensive, but thats what utilizing parts from other cars is for. I've never driven one of these cars, but I currently drive a E34 M5 (dads) and I was driving a 87 Buick Grand National last year. I've taken the M to a couple of track days and autox's during the summer. I wanted a car I could build basically from the ground up and improve over time with my driving skills and experiance. But, I'm all ears to you guys, so I'm concidering another vehical just in case.

Rice, people are trying to put this all very nicely for you but you aren't getting the point.   If you want to drive an M5 or a Grand National that's fine, but don't try to get a Pagoda to act like either because it never never will.  If you want to "build" a car, start with something more appropriate:  Mustang, Camero, BMW, VOLVO (consider mutilating a P1800 -- those are nice cars too) ...   You're talking about this car from your friend that has 66,000 miles and is in good shape and then you talk about chopping it to pieces and destroying it into some sort of Frankenstein race car.  

If you DO get the Pagoda, have the decency to sell it to someone who wants that type of car and you'll have enough money to buy something that you can turn into a racer.  

What you are talking about is a BAD BAD idea.

If you _must_ mess up a Mercedes, mess up a 107 car -- they are less valuable and are set up nicely for a big V8.

Or consider the Jag XJ6 w/ the Chevy V8 conversion.   That's a car you will find for sale at an attractive price.

But doing this to a nice Pagoda destroys its value.  At least do it to a wrecker instead.

[Mark280SL]

For what you are wanting to do give serious consideration to something like a 1990-1996 era Nissan 300ZX instead of a W113

You can get a 90s era ZX for as low as $1,900.00 or less,  do all the stuff you want to it and it will not only perform light years better then a W113 you will likely not end up, wasting a lot of time and money selling it for a big loss like you will if you get the 113. A Z is a cool car, built for performance that you can do a lot with considering the things you have in mind. Hell, now I want to buy one!

Don't think you can do anything to theft proof the 113 by the way.....won't happen. They are easy prey.

Some others may want to give you a lecture and I can't say I blame them but I'm not looking to lecture....What you are thinking about doing will just trash the 113 and you'll never get the performance or handling you want that you'll get with another car. You'll look back years from now and say why did I waste my time and money and wreck a car like that. Believe me, take it from someone who knows......I've owned dozens of cars over the years and when I was younger I screwed up cars I wish I could have now so I could do it the right way. You came here to learn right? take it from people who know.

Let the 113 go to someone who wants to take care of a car like that and treat it right, If you find a good Z you'll love it and have a blast, you'll never regret it.

[LEFT OVER RICE]

quote:Rice, people are trying to put this all very nicely for you but you aren't getting the point.   If you want to drive an M5 or a Grand National that's fine, but don't try to get a Pagoda to act like either because it never never will.  If you want to "build" a car, start with something more appropriate:  Mustang, Camero, BMW, VOLVO (consider mutilating a P1800 -- those are nice cars too) ...   You're talking about this car from your friend that has 66,000 miles and is in good shape and then you talk about chopping it to pieces and destroying it into some sort of Frankenstein race car.  

If you DO get the Pagoda, have the decency to sell it to someone who wants that type of car and you'll have enough money to buy something that you can turn into a racer.  

What you are talking about is a BAD BAD idea.

If you _must_ mess up a Mercedes, mess up a 107 car -- they are less valuable and are set up nicely for a big V8.

Or consider the Jag XJ6 w/ the Chevy V8 conversion.   That's a car you will find for sale at an attractive price.

But doing this to a nice Pagoda destroys its value.  At least do it to a wrecker instead.

No offense, but theres no sense of putting 30-50 grand in a car that you barely drive. I plan to drive this daily, so why not make it to my liking, to enjoy on the daily route to school or work? The motivation came from James Deans modded Porsche, Little Bastard, but I see some of you don't like to mix things up. BTW, I don't care about future value, because I plan to keep this car unless I've got to get rid of it.

[Benz Dr.]

Don't you guys know when you're getting scamed?

 It's someone ( much older than 17 ) just trying to have a bit of fun.

  ( why didn't I think of this? )

[scoot]

quote:Originally posted by LEFT OVER RICE


No offense, but theres no sense of putting 30-50 grand in a car that you barely drive. I plan to drive this daily, so why not make it to my liking, to enjoy on the daily route to school or work? The motivation came from James Deans modded Porsche, Little Bastard, but I see some of you don't like to mix things up. BTW, I don't care about future value, because I plan to keep this car unless I've got to get rid of it.

OK James Dean, go ahead and put a bunch of money into a car that is totally unsuited to the purpose that you are describing.  You won't end up with what you are looking for.

[scoot]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Don't you guys know when you're getting scamed?

 It's someone ( much older than 17 ) just trying to have a bit of fun.

  ( why didn't I think of this? )

You think so Dan?  I think he's for real, just some kid with some poorly-thought-out ideas...   whatever, I don't think we'll be hearing from him anymore.

[LEFT OVER RICE]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Don't you guys know when you're getting scamed?

 It's someone ( much older than 17 ) just trying to have a bit of fun.

  ( why didn't I think of this? )

No scam. I was serious.

[LEFT OVER RICE]

quote:Originally posted by scoot

quote:Originally posted by LEFT OVER RICE


No offense, but theres no sense of putting 30-50 grand in a car that you barely drive. I plan to drive this daily, so why not make it to my liking, to enjoy on the daily route to school or work? The motivation came from James Deans modded Porsche, Little Bastard, but I see some of you don't like to mix things up. BTW, I don't care about future value, because I plan to keep this car unless I've got to get rid of it.

OK James Dean, go ahead and put a bunch of money into a car that is totally unsuited to the purpose that you are describing.  You won't end up with what you are looking for.

Why do you think this car isn't up to par?

[mdsalemi]

Rice,

It isn't that the car isn't up to par.  It's that you came here seeking advice, and you have received some sage advice at that.

There are plenty of other cars with more plentiful parts, less costly parts, and chassis more adaptable to various kinds of engine transplants than the W113.  Want a nice hot rod racer?  Find a Sunbeam Tiger.

Though not universal, there is a good consensus here also, to maintain factory originality as best can be done.

You sought advice and you received it.  I'd say the advice you received, though not entirely agreed upon by everybody, is pretty darn good.

You don't have to take it, but it is given sincerely and by people who've owned these cars for a long time and are pretty familiar with them.

[scoot]

quote:Originally posted by LEFT OVER RICE

Why do you think this car isn't up to par?

It's not a question of the car being up to par.  It's a question of trying to make a hotrod out of a classic cruiser.  And of shoving some big V8 into something that isn't designed to carry that.  There are plenty of better choice cars to do this to if you think about it.

[egggplant]

Have you considered a Royale?  The advantages are:

- The engine bay is roomy enough to accommodate almost any engine.

- They're out of production so you should be able to get one cheap.

Unfortunately they didn't sell as many of them as they'd hoped to so your biggest challenge will be finding one in nice condition that hasn't been raced.

I don't know where you live but for some reason they seem particularly common in northern California.  Once when I was in Monterey I saw six of them in one day.

[waqas]

quote:Originally posted by LEFT OVER RICE

1. Has anyone tried fitting a 4.3l engine from the 300sel? If not, do you guys think it would fit?

There have been some v8 conversions to Mercedes engines of the era. Search the web and you should find some information. I expect you'll need to upgrade the entire drive-train to handle the extra power.

quote:2. Does Bilstein make gas shocks for this vehical?

Bilstein's are standard equipment on this vehicle. You can also use Koni gas shocks.

quote:3. For the guys that drive their W113's daily, how do you keep them theft proof?

Good insurance coverage. Lots of discussion about this on the site, so start searching.

quote:4. For the guys that drive these in the winter, what do you use or do to protect the body from potential rust and road salts?

Can't give you a definitive answer as I live in Texas and we don't use salt. I've read elsewhere that many hose down their cars from underneath each time they drive over salt. Not practical.

quote:5. Other than the 4.3l swap, what other engines are good combo's with this car? I need at least 310 in torque numbers, but the engine has to be stock.

I remember reading somewhere that Eric Waxenberger's experimental versions with v8 motors installed were deemed too unstable due to the high amount of torque channeled through the 113 chassis. I suspect the MB engineers would have fitted the 3.5 v8's of the era had it been safe.

Perhaps you should search out the ford/chevy v8 conversions that come up for sale every now and then. You might be better off test-driving one of these cars before going any further with your R&D.  This would also avoid the bastardization of an original example, which would be my personal preference.

[Benz Dr.]

Get real everybody. It's a scam. I've seen this too many times to waste more than this......

[scoot]

quote:Originally posted by Benz Dr.

Get real everybody. It's a scam. I've seen this too many times to waste more than this......

I don't think it's a scam, but I do think he should consider looking for a good second-hand Royale instead of a 113.

[Douglas]

Personally, I think people (and their threads) should be collectively "shunned" if they don't properly introduce themselves, but maybe I'm being a grumpy old man. :-)