Window lifter - crank stop. Which way??

[66andBlue]

Hello All.
In the process of adjusting the windows to the hard top I checked the 3 stops on the cross bar that prevent the window from going to high or too low on the bottom.  
There is another stop on  the crank  mechanism.  Looking at a picture posted on the German web site the screw faces away from the saw tooth - providing another stop at the bottom.
I have a picture of what it looked on my 230SL before the restoration - here the screw points the other way providing another stop for the upward motion.  Which way is correct?? Is it a 230SL - 280SL difference?
Also mine has a rubber cone that provides some restriction when the window lift is all the way up. Is this original?
Thanks for any info.

[jameshoward]

Alfred,

I don't have any photos of the area, but I have been in there quite a bit of late. The screw you mention doesn't, I think, hit against the rubber stop. The screw is there to prevent the handle being wound too far down. It is, I think, a more robust version of the numerous other ways that the window mech is regulated. I can't make out the angles on the first photo, but when wound down the screw 'stops' the metal bar from going any lower. I think the photo on the right is taken with the window wound up because I can't see the metal bar. On my car the bolt head stops the mechanism and I have no reason to believe that my mechanism has ever been messed about. It has certainly not been restored and the door cards are original, still bearing the inspectors mark. It seems to me that if the tip of the bolt stopped the mechanism it would present less surface area to the metal of the window mechanism. I think you're gut instinct is correct but when you watch the mech go up and down and see where it stops you'll see what I mean about the bolt head being upper most.

Lots of waffle, and not sure than helps much. Good luck. I loathed the whole process of adjusting the windows and frame for the hard and soft top.

James

[bpossel]

Hello Alfred!

Here are a couple of pictures of the lift mechanism from my 280sl out of the car.  The 3rd pic is before I removed it.  Window is in the lowered postion, all the way down.  James is correct, it looks like the bolt stops the window crank going down too far and hitting the metal bar.  The small rubber is a buffer.  

Not: Mine looks like yours, bolt head facing the rubber.
Any pics of your car?  How's your resto going Alfred?
Take care, Bob  

[66andBlue]

Hello James and Bob,
thanks for the comments and the pictures, they help a lot!
So, it looks to me that the left picture in my earlier post shows the wrong orientation of the stop bolt.

Bob, could you find a replacement for the rubber stopper? The ones I have wont fit because the neck is not wide enough to accommodate the thick metal.
Also, I believe that your picture 3 shows the left window and was taken with the window up not down, correct? Here is what my right window looks when rolled up:

[bpossel]

Hi Alfred,

You're correct, I guess the window was up...?
I have not found any replacement rubbers.  If I do, I'll let you know.  Please do the same.  I am at least a week+ away from starting my windows...  I have lost a week with the subframe mount issue that I created.
Bob  

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

... I have not found any replacement rubbers.  If I do, I'll let you know.  Please do the same....

Hi Bob,
I found them with the help of Dave Gallon, he has a bunch of them.
Part number 0009879440 - they are cheap!
Insert them from the back, grab the stem in front, pull through, and then cut the stem of.
The rubber plug is not used as a stop but the disk on the back keeps the two metal parts apart when they slide against each other as you roll up the window, and also prevents rattling.

[bpossel]

Hi Alfred,

I have a bunch of these already.  Good to know what they are!
Thanks a lot!
Bob

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

... I have not found any replacement rubbers.  If I do, I'll let you know.  Please do the same....

Hi Bob,
I found them with the help of Dave Gallon, he has a bunch of them.
Part number 0009879440 - they are cheap!
Insert them from the back, grab the stem in front, pull through, and then cut the stem of.
The rubber plug is not used as a stop but the disk on the back keeps the two metal parts apart when they slide against each other as you roll up the window, and also prevents rattling.

[waqas]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

... Part number 0009879440 - they are cheap!
Insert them from the back, grab the stem in front, pull through, and then cut the stem of.
The rubber plug is not used as a stop but the disk on the back keeps the two metal parts apart when they slide against each other as you roll up the window, and also prevents rattling.

Alfred, thanks for posting that image!  I once found pieces of the rubber inside my door when I was cleaning out the drain-holes, and wondered where they were from-- and then promptly forgot! Now I've re-remembered what I needed to do!

[Benz Dr.]

The screw had a rubber bumper on it at one time. I use hood stop bumper screws which are basically the same part.

[66andBlue]

Thanks Dan!
I kind of suspected that but was not sure - now I know  

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by waqas

.... I once found pieces of the rubber inside my door when I was cleaning out the drain-holes, and wondered where they were from-- and then promptly forgot! Now I've re-remembered what I needed to do!

Hi Waqas,
here is another possibility in addition to to the crank stop.

[bpossel]

Hi All!

While we are on the discussion of windows, there is a rubber hose that surrounds a portion of the spring wire.  I assume this was also to prevent rattles?  How is this supposed to be fitted?  Is it supposed to cover the long wire for the spring or should it cover the spring?

Thanks, Bob

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

Hello Alfred!

Here are a couple of pictures of the lift mechanism from my 280sl out of the car.  The 3rd pic is before I removed it.  Window is in the lowered postion, all the way down.  James is correct, it looks like the bolt stops the window crank going down too far and hitting the metal bar.  The small rubber is a buffer.  

Not: Mine looks like yours, bolt head facing the rubber.
Any pics of your car?  How's your resto going Alfred?
Take care, Bob  

[66andBlue]

Bob,
on my car the hose fits over one end of the spring and covers most of the wire. When the spring is loose it prevents rattling against the vertical bar.

[bpossel]

Thanks Alfred!
Bob  

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

Bob,
on my car the hose fits over one end of the spring and covers most of the wire. When the spring is loose it prevents rattling against the vertical bar.

[westview95]

Any tips on what would make my driver's side window stop (with about 2 inches still showing) from lowering completely into the door? I just had it into the body shop, they were not working on either of the doors, but now my window won't fully go down. They "don't know anything" about what might have caused the problem, and told me to bring it back next week, and they'll take a look...
If it's easy enough, I was thinking about going in there myself. Windows are a new area for me. This thread looks pretty helpful. Any advice? The window cranks smoothly on the way up, and on the way down - it just won't go all the way down.
Thanks,
Bill
'71 280SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello, Bill,
On my car, the rear window guide had come loose from the glass and fallen off to the bottom of the channel, blocking the glass from going all the way down.
You can remove the door card and have a look.
If it is the guide, you'll have to take the glass out to stick the guide back on.

Obviously, not the first time its been off [!]




Hope this helps.
naj

[westview95]

Thanks, Naj. I'll take a look.
Bill

[westview95]

Naj,
You're right on; that's exactly what it was. Will now go to work on glass removal. Thanks again,
Bill

[Peter van Es]

So who is gonna put this excellent information (including the pictures) in the Technical Manual ?

Peter

[Ron]

Hello all, on my right door, both window guides have fallen off the window glass and were found in the bottom of the door.  On each, there's two grooves.  There's one groove for the window glass, with little plastic holders, 2 on the rear guide, 1 on the front, and I've purchased the proper 3 new ones from M-B.  The other groove on each guide rides on a metal track.  Is that groove lined with anything?  My rear guide has a bit of cloth with a rubber like finish, nearly gone.  The front guide has nothing in the grove, so it was metal to metal contact.  In the photo in this thread, it looks like the groove has something in it, what is supposed to be there?   Thanks, Ron

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:Originally posted by Ron



There's one groove for the window glass, with little plastic holders, 2 on the rear guide, 1 on the front, and I've purchased the proper 3 new ones from M-B.  The other groove on each guide rides on a metal track.  Is that groove lined with anything?  My rear guide has a bit of cloth with a rubber like finish, nearly gone.  The front guide has nothing in the grove, so it was metal to metal contact.  In the photo in this thread, it looks like the groove has something in it, what is supposed to be there?   Thanks, Ron

Hello, Ron,

Please Note!!

The groove with the plastic guides are the ones that run on the track. The set screws on the guides are used to set the gap between guide and track to get minimum side play but be loose enough to let the glass slide smoothly when cranked up or down.
The metal grooves are the ones glued to the glass but a piece of felt or fabric is used between the glass and the groove to center the glass in the groove. On the guide in the picture, some jollop was used to stick the guide to the glass, but no fabric or felt was used and the glass was not centered in the guide. Hence up/down movement was very difficult and the glass was scratched by the trim clips.
Also note when glueing the guides back to the glass that the rear guide fits right at the bottom of the glass while the front one is shaped at an angle to fit the contour of the glass.

naj

[Ron]

Thanks so much naj, this makes so much sense now.  I'll go purchase some felt, take the window out and felt/glue the guides back as per  your instructions.  I was trying to put the guides back on backwards, as you have determined!  Ron

[Naj ✝︎]

quote:Originally posted by Ron



Thanks so much naj, this makes so much sense now.  I'll go purchase some felt, take the window out and felt/glue the guides back as per  your instructions.  I was trying to put the guides back on backwards, as you have determined!  Ron

I did try it the other way once.
The glass shattered into millions of pieces when I tightened the screws  :?

naj

[tel76]

Hello All
As i will have to re-glue all my guides back on what is the best products to use
   Eric.

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by tel76

Hello All
As i will have to re-glue all my guides back on what is the best products to use
   Eric.

Gernold advised me to use "3M channel bonding adhesive". It is a 2-component black polymeric glue that doesn't cure stone hard but remains just a tiny bit flexible.  It is dispensed through a mixing tube. But you can just squeeze out equal amounts of the monomer and the crosslinker/hardener and mix it in a disposable tray and smear it into the channel of the jaw.  Others have used 2-component epoxy glue.

When you push the jaw onto the glass make sure that the wall of the jaw is parallel to the glass otherwise the window will not move up and down freely.  New windows from M-B are supplied with the jaws already glued on and the factory uses some kind of mesh fabric ("felt") to keep the glass straight but if you do this the material you use should be permeable to the glue otherwise the bonding between the metal and the glass will be weak.