Auto to 4 speed parts???

[Shvegel]

I have begun to acquire parts to do an eventual manual trans swap into my automatic 113. I know that most parts can be found on other cars but I don't know what I need and where it can be found?
 Thanks,
 Pat

[Cees Klumper]

This may be more complicated than it may seem. Just guessing at some of these points: the driveshaft is probably a different length. The transmission tunnel (heavy-gauge steel) is probably a different shape. The electric wiring is different. Probably many more issues here. I have considered it myself but, besides making the car non-original, it seems to be more trouble than it's worth, at least to me. It would be interesting to see some comments from others - anyone done this before?

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Shvegel]

Cees,
 I had brought this up before and was under the impression that almost all of the parts are shared with other models. Sounds like an almost bolt on so I don't think value will suffer as well as the orig parts are retained.
 However knowing myself I will probably go one better and try to find a more recent 5-speed and attempt to swap it in. I was contemplating the M-47 5-speed from a later Volvo 240 but it has no speedometer drive so it is out for now.

[ja17]

Pat wrote;
 "I just purchased a 4-speed trans from a 1967 250S and was wondering if any other parts from this car would do me any good in terms of a trans swap?"

Hello Pat,
 If the flywheel is the  balanced version it will also work. Earliest 250-S flywheels were counter-balanced to the crankshaft and won't work. The later ones will. Just look on the back of the flywheel to see if it is counter-balanced. You probably can use the hydraulics (reservoir, master cylinder,etc). I think that most of the shifter assembly is the same also. Get the flywheel bolts also since they are different. The clutch will work although you will probably want to use new. The centering bearing in the crankshaft should be installed new but you may want to get the dust cover over it. I think maybe even the pedal assembly will work. The standard transmission will require a different length on the front driveshaft half also. I am not sure if the sedan one will be the correct length. I have had
these cut down or lengthened, it was not expensive (less than $100.00). One other thing Pat,.the top transmission cover shift rod on the SL's goose necks down more than,on the sedan transmissions. You may have to slightly modify something or find an SL top cover. I think the W111 large bodied coupes also have a gooseneck top shift rod cover, but they are not quite as radical as the SL.
I think most covers can be made to work. Good Luck!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[n/a]

First let me say I'm a "stickshift" kind of guy. Having said that, I would stay with the automatic box. Contemporary road tests show little practical difference in perfomance between the two. I find my four speed unpleasant little thing compared to British or Italian cars. If you've driven a four speed and liked it, then forget everything I said and good luck in your conversion.

Rudy
Los Angeles
1971 280 SL

[n/a]

My friend Alan Dukes did this a few years back and said there were so many little bits he had to get that he found it easier to get a donor car- a manual-shift rust bucket- to get all the bits. Even when he had to replace them, it was helpful to see how things went together. Having just bought a 4spd car, really the MB 4spd is not that great- the ratios are too far apart. If you are going to go to all that trouble, and I think it is a LOT of trouble, you should try to find a five-speed box that will fit.
  Some of the five-speed boxes were made by ZF. They were probably fitted to other cars as well, which means there may be some out there. Gernold Nisius in Maine might know of other ZF boxes that will interchange. Good luck.

[Shvegel]

Thanks all!
 I am sort of contemplating a modern 5-speed swap eventually. I don't really mind the auto. I drove my car almost 8k miles this year and the only thing that I find annoying is 4,000 RPM's at 70 MPH. I started researching the Volvo M-47 trans but unfortunatly there is no speedo drive so that one is out.

[Benz Dr.]

I've done this job several times and it's not that bad really.
You need:
 1)a flywheel. Keep a 230SL auto the way it came as the flywheel has to be balanced to the crankshaft ( unless you have it apart already). I've never seen anything but a blanced flywheel on 250's and 280's so I'm going to disagree there.
 2)pilot bearing and different flywheel bolts.
3) clutch slave, master , hoses and clutch pedal assymebly. All this can be had from a sedan with no modifications.
4) reverse light wireing. You will need to wire in the neutral switch while the other two wires can be sent to a plug in from the trans.
5) shifer tube with box and stabilizer bars. Note that a 5 speed car has different length parts.
6) you may want to change the speedo cable as they're a different length as well.
7) different length drive shaft and the late 250's and 280's use one that has U joins which can't be replaced. The 5 speed cars probably use the drive shaft from an auto but I've never checked this. They are shorter though.
you will need to remove some of the wireing going to the auto trans as it won't be needed.

I would advise you to use new parts where needed and only new parts such as throw out bearing , pilot bearing,clutch disc, master and slave cylinder. The flywheel should be re-ground not cut and the trans should be inspected for leaking and proper function before installation. Inspect the flex disc for wear and proper installation before you install the trans. It's too much work to keep removing it every time you find something wrong.

Whole job takes about 2 days.

Dan c

Daniel G Caron

[ja17]

Hello Pat and Dan,
The counter balanced flywheel and crankshaft was used in the earliest sedan 250 SE engines only up to engine #004789 with automatics. This can also be confirmed by the different counter balanced crankshaft #108 030 2501 instead of the #108 030 4301 (balanced). The flywheel from these early engines will not work with your crankshaft. Any of the later 250 SE flywheels will work fine.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Ricardo]

Hi Joe
I seem to have an engine that disagrees with what you've just stated here. My engine is a 250se auto. that has been transplanted to my standard tranny car. The eng. is 129 980 12 002643. The work was done before the previous owner, so I can't speak to what flywheel was used in the car, but from what you've said, it shouldn't be possible??
Not trying to stir things up, just hoping to add to the knowledge base
Ricardo

[ja17]

Hello Recardo,
There are several possibilities here. One may be that the previous owner put the correct counter balanced flywheel on when doing the swap. Another is he used the balanced flywheel on the counter balanced crankshaft which would leave your engine with an imbalance and unusual vibration, especially at higher rpms?
I have parts catalog "A" and "B" on the 250-S and 250-SE. The early version in catalog "A" shows the counterbalanced set-up and verifies it with part numbers. (click on the enlarge button to improve these images)
Download Attachment: early crank design.jpg
79.56 KB
The later catalog "B" shows the later design with balanced crankshaft and flywheel. (I am currently trying to add this catalog "B" page also but am having trouble compressing it to fit, will keep trying.)
Be aware that the early version 250-S and SE engines with the counterbalanced arragement was changed before production began on the 250-SL. So this counter balanced arrangement was never used in the W113 SL. However if anyone is using early 250-S or SE engines or parts in a W113 they could possibly have a problem.
I have rebuilt several of these early counter balanced engines. They are not common but they do exist. You should also review Pete Lesler's post #11221 on the old Yahoo W113 site for some additional information.
One additional way to check to see if your 250-SE engine is a counter balanced unit is to look at the front crankshaft dampner from below. If it is a counter balanced unit it will have a single large mass. If balanced it will have  three smaller masses spaced equally around it. Thanks for the input. Hope this helps clear-up some questions.



Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio