113 windshield glass - California

[Rick]

I am considering buying a replacment windshield glass from a company located in Massachusetts.   These windshields are tinted and do not have the dark band at the top.   They advertise these on ebay for $255 each (270354955188), but it costs an additional 125 to ship to California.  They will ship more than one windshield for the same shipping price.  I live in central California and regularly travel through most of Callifornia.  If someone else in California wanted a windshield,  we could split the shipping cost and as long as you live in an area I travel to, I could drop off the windshield during my travel.    Rick
iknoian@comcast.net   (559) 281 3598

[rmmchl]

you do not have to order our glass special---------, all glass suppliers get them from ppg-they even make them for mercedes now-they are not expensive-they run about $150.00 wholesale-$200.00 retail

[goodcompany]

Rick,

Do you have more details reg the ppg windshield deal ? mine is delaminating...I guess that's what you call that problem where the transparent plastic layer between the two glass layers starts to get milky , seperates therby looking ugly...

Thanks,

Markus

[Joe]

I took my car to a local auto glass shop and had a new windshield installed. Total cost was 216 dollars, with me supplying a new seal. I suggest you just call a few shops near you.
Joe

[goodcompany]

Joe,

This looks like the best route to take, a practical, local solution...

Thanks for the advice,

Markus

[mdsalemi]

I might very well be wrong, but I think the price has gone down.

I paid about $500 (+/-) for the glass alone back in 2000/2001.  It was PPG with the tint band, and I did shop it around a bit.

So, if retail is $200, and installed is $216, I would consider that to be an exceptionally good deal.  At that price there's no reason to live with an old, pitted and delaminated windscreen if you do any serious driving.

[J. Huber]

I agree if the price is 200-ish installed, it just moved up way the list! Mine is original and has is actually quite an amazing piece of art, given all the teeny-tiny pits. Oh and one big one (just out of line of sight, Thank Goodness...). I also have the alligator skin in the corners.

I think the scariest part is having it installed correctly. I had always heard -- besides using an OEM seal -- to take it to the dealership -- to at least have them be on the hook. Not true?

Also -- Anyone know if windshields are covered by American Collectors?

[Bob G ✝︎]

I use National glass on in Los Angeles. ask for butch He is an old timer who knows what he is doing and was a round when these cars were new. It a small operation but butch is old school and know these cars well.


National Glass company
Family owned and operated  since 1946
Bill Grunbok owner
1600 South La Cienega blvd
Los Angeles, Ca 90035
(213) 655-8717
(310) 652 4106
(310) 288-0573 fax
Ask for Butch  tell them Bob Geco sent you.

[Rick]

Thank you for the suggestions on the windshield.  I did call Butch at National Glass in LA this morning.  He tried to help and put effort into finding what was available. He called back and said that PPG only provides the glass with the dark "shade" band at the top.   I find that these windshields do not look correct, but even more important, the SL has a very short glass height and the band interfers with my field of view and makes the windshield seem even shorter than it is.  I was quoted $275 for the PPG "shaded" glass.

Certainly, if there is a more cost effective option to get the tinted glass, without the dark shade band, in California, I am all for it.  If not, I am still interested in looking at splitting the shipping cost, with one or more persons, of the tinted, with no dark shade band, glass as I discussed at the beginning of this message.   Thanks. Rick

[waqas]

Hey Rick, Thanks for sharing the PPG information. Did you find out what color of "dark" they use for the shaded band? (is it correct?)

All, regarding the delamination issue, I'm wondering if these problems are restricted to batches produced in the 80s. I seem to recall MB having delamination problems with 126 chassis windshields (early SEC especially). Those of you whose windshields are showing delamination, do you know if/when your windshield was last replaced, if at all?

[johnd]

Can't speak to the product, bor the color issue, but the price of the PPG glass is amazing.  Been working with a guy here to get me one for a couple of weeks.  He says his main warehouse will have one in a couple of weeks for $125 . . . . $20 more if I want it now from another warehouse. . . .  Can't believe they are that cheap . .  Awesome!

[mdsalemi]

Some things to consider about buying a windshield, particularly one off of an eBay vendor.  Mind you these are just the things that run through my mind when thinking about this task.

1)  Has anybody had any long-term experience with this "shadeless" window supplier, or this windshield itself?  If the car got 30+ years out of the first one, perhaps you'd like the second windshield to be the last one YOU buy.  Aftermarket: PPG.  We know them.  MB OEM?  Saint-Gobain.  We know them too.

2)  Regardless of the price, if you buy a windshield from "A" and "B" installs it, you are dealing with 2 entities.  It isn't unheard of to break a windshield during installation...who assumes responsibility?  I think there is a bit of a risk here one must be willing to assume...it won't be the seller, and won't be the installer.  Who is left on that totem pole?

3)  Unlike a lot of parts, this windshield is for the W113 only.  Making them is highly automated and very precise operation; you don't make them one at a time.  Makes me wonder where they are coming from.
 
4)  So, WHERE are they coming from?  Does the manufacturer have any history?  Who is it?  Can you be assured of high quality?  Are they substandard knock-offs made in some far eastern country, or some high quality manufacturer simply unidentified as of yet?

5)  Does the replacement have a DOT approval?  Maybe it's not even LEGAL in the USA or California.

FWIW, "tinted" (not shaded) glass is considerably LESS costly to manufacture than clear.  Clear glass requires very pure raw materials; tinted does not.  This is new to me: I've never heard of anyone (until this post) have an issue with the shade band and line of sight.  I've never owned a car without one.  There are some federal and state rules and regulations about how far down the shade band can go.  I suppose if I were tall (I'm not: merely 5'8") and was used to a certain seating position AND a non-shade windshield it would be an issue.

Just some things to think about.

In a closed car (sedan) the tint band serves a useful purpose, like it or not.  I think they became popular with the advent of A/C.  I'm curious, however, as to why the plain windshields for this car have gone away.  Any ideas?

[bpossel]

Peter - should this topic be moved to " Body, interior, paint..."?
++++++

When I replaced my windshield last year, the cost was considerably higher  . I was told it was made by PPG.
Would be interesting to see if someone on our site could decode all of the #'s, etc on the attached pic of the new windshield.

[mdsalemi]

Bob,

You do not have an [aftermarket] PPG windshield, you have an OEM, with the precious 3-point star!

Saint-Gobain is the parent company of Sekurit, and is a worldwide glass manufacturer.  The DOT27 means it is a Sekurit-Saint-Gobain product made in Germany.

http://www.carwindshields.info/DOT_db.htm

The M582 apparently is the model number of the glass, specific to the Sekurit manufacture.
AS1 means clarity of the glass.  Look for things like AS2, AS3 on side-lites, etc.  The best and clearest is reserved for the front.

http://www.carwindshields.info/windshieldmarkings.htm

Hope this helps.

[rmmchl]

guess what-sekurit are really ppg's-they make them for mercedes -mercedes does not make the glass------------ppg does it and they put their logo on it----------go to safelight or your local glass company-find an old school installer-get him a new rubber seal------------------let him do his job--------i also purchased new chrome when i did mine-they chrome has to be placed in to the rubber before installing it-then it is all installed together as one one-----------------its a real tight fit-if your installer is not real good-he will think the glass doesn't fit!-get another installer

[66andBlue]

guess what-sekurit are really ppg's-they make them for mercedes -mercedes does not make the glass------------ppg does it and they put their logo on it---

Huh? 
Saint-Gobain Sekurit is a subsidiary of Saint-Gobain, one of the top 100 industrial companies in the world. Headquartered in Paris, Saint-Gobain is listed on the stock markets of Paris, London, Frankfurt, Zurich, Brussels, and Amsterdam. The German subsidiary is Saint-Gobain Sekurit - Glas-Union GmbH.
http://www.saint-gobain-sekurit.com/en/index.asp?nav1=AU&nav2=AUO

PPG Auto Glass is a consolidated affiliate of PPG formed with the U.S. automotive replacement glass distribution businesses of PPG and Apogee Enterprises.
https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Glass/AutoGlass/100_AboutUs/

[bpossel]

This is nice to know!  Maybe the "PPG makes glass for MB" is one of those things passed down and spread without much validation.  Funny...  I heard this from the service guys at the dealer and from the independant glass guy who helped to install my new windshield (PPG is MB?).  I am glad to know that there is a difference and that there is (or may be) a reason for the large price variance.  Lets see how those that end up installing the PPG glass turn out. If it installs well, looks well, etc...  it is a nice option for all those cracked and chipped windshields that need replacing.
I am fortunate to have my car insured by State Farm and have full coverage on it.  Windshields are covered 100% on my policy and so if cracked, or major chips that will cause cracks (safety issue), State Farm will replace with OE.
Bob

[mdsalemi]

Bob,

I have a PPG windshield, and it is fine.  Aside from the "tint band" which apparently some people don't like (I specifically asked for it back in 2000 when I bought the windshield) and the lack of the 3-point star (-1 point in Councours!) it is fine.  Of course, my car--like yours--no longer lives the life it was designed to do.  Occasional use, just 10,000 miles since 2001.  But I paid $500 for the windshield alone.  That's a lot more money than they are going for today.  I had no plans on Concours at the time, and never thought to seek out an MB Sekurit windshield.

I don't know where rmmmchl gets/received his information but it is disturbing on so many levels.  First, if it were true, the MB lawyers or the Saint-Gobain lawyers would be ALL OVER IT in a heartbeat.  They don't take any use--particularly any commercial use--of the 3-point star lightly, and I don't think, conversely, that Saint-Gobain would take lightly to somebody branding their name on a different product.  Second, that DOT number indicates the factory the glass was made in.   So, even though yours is a Saint-Gobain (not Mercedes) product, it is from the Sekurit factory in Germany.  What rmmmchl is suggesting is counterfeit products with the MB name on them?  I think 66andBlue spelled it out.

Bob, anything is possible in this crazy world we are in today, but I believe that you bought the real deal.  Is it any "better" than an aftermarket PPG?  I don't know.  But it is the real thing.

Maybe Mr. Kunz will weigh in here.

Now, watch out for those flying stones!

[abe280SL]

...and maybe they are all made in the same plant in CHINA.
abe

[Nate]

I would suggest calling Al Trevino in the wholesale parts department at Mercedes-Benz of Anaheim to order your glass.  I paid $504 which included a MBCA 20% discount.  They'll deliver to your installer for free in the LA/OC area.  I believe the tinted band on the top of the windshield was an option, this is the style I opted for.  But MBZ still offers both, and I believe the non-tinted is ~$150 less.  And yes, they are manufactured by PPG but have the original Sekurit logo in the lower left-hand corner.

[66andBlue]

Nate,
could you post a picture of the logo please?
Thanks!

[bpossel]

I looked at my windshield today on my '97 e320.  It has the MB logo on the glass and also "PPG".
On my 280sl, it has the MB logo and "Sekurit"....  Looks like they both do the glass for MB
Bob 

[66andBlue]

Bob,
I have no doubt that PPG manufactures windshields for Daimler what I was curious about is whether PPG is allowed to put the name "Sekurit" on their products.

My knowledge about Sekurit comes from a book by Horst Möller entitled "Saint-Gobin in Deutschland: Von 1853 bis zur Gegenwart" (= Saint-Gobin in Germany: From 1853 to the present). In 1929 Saint-Gobin received a patent for a tempered glass and soon after patents in Germany.  However another French company - Boussois - had also received a patent for a secure glass made by a different process. Their tradename for that glass was "Securit" - just one letter different.  After these companies agreed to exchange licenses Saint Gobin registered its process and the name SEKURIT and received a Trademark on May 24, 1933. Boussois did the same and received a Trademark for SECURIT.
Saint-Gobin had a subsidiary in Herzogenrath (near the French border) and that company received an exclusive license to manufacture the SEKURIT glass and distribute it worldwide except in France, Great Britain, Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the USA.  Before WW-II this glass was "Einschichtglas" (or tempered) glass. I do not know when the company started to make "Verbundglas" (= laminated glass) but in the 1950s they bought up several German laminated glass manufacturers and little later they had most of the market.

Now back to PPG. In my previous post I should have mentioned that the original and current PPG Corporation last year had sold part of the glass business to Kohlberg and with that deal Pittsburgh Glass Works was started:
http://www.pgwglass.com/Pages/PressRelease10022008.aspx
They are the ones that sell PPG automotive glass now: http://www.pgwglass.com

So, is there a windshield out there that has both logos, PPG and SEKURIT, on the same glass??