280SL Values

[Douglas]

It's been interesting to follow Pagoda SL values in this troubled economy. It seems like the bottom of the market has shown a lot of movement with corresponding soft prices.

The top of the market is a bit murkier. I've been following this auction to see how this very nice Pagoda is doing. It's received a lot of bids and has already climbed well past $50K:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=180321411297

[mdsalemi]

Douglas,

I am not an eBay power seller, or even very active compared to many, but I almost always have things listed.  I would like to assume that my experiences are not much different than many others.  So, that being said:

1)  It is extremely easy for a buyer to CANCEL a bid.
2)  It is extremely easy for a buyer to CANCEL a transaction after the auction is closed.
3)  It is extremely easy for a buyer to simply NOT PAY (of course they don't get the car, if it indeed exists in the first place.)
4)  On nearly everything I've listed for more than $100.00, I consistently get offers to buy outside of the eBay process at a lower price.
5)  For 95% of the items I sell, there is no bidding until the last few minutes of the auction.  If there is, it is simply ONE bid; the rest happen in the last few seconds.

Thus, I am not sure I'd place much stock or truth into eBay auction prices as a metric of anything.  What you see as a lurker doesn't mean the deal actually happened and doesn't necessarily reflect the real price if it did.  As an overall measure of the economy's impact on collector cars in general, an analysis of the latest B-J in Phoenix might be useful.

If you want to witness something quite funny, high-end pianos (full size grands, Steinways, Yamaha, etc) are consistently listed on eBay but I don't believe ANY of them actual sell at auction.  The storefronts--some well known piano brokers, simply use the eBay auction price as a storefront to drive traffic to their website and as a means of advertising their services and stock.  I've seen some of the same pianos showing up for well over a year in many, many auctions from the same sellers.  People then surf to the eBay store, or to the owner's website, etc. and a deal is made there (without the eBay fees, might I add--just the listing fee). 

[MichaelB.]

That particular car looks to be priced correctly. However like mdsalemi says it could be hard to determine the actual sale via this auction.

My personal thoughts are that solid well done restorations - or very high quality originals will forever bring strong resale values. It may be a tad tougher to find an actual buyer for a premium car (Vs a regular tire-kicker looking for a deal) but good SL's currently do (& should always) demand good money.

[redpagoda]

In Australia whilst we have seen a steady rise in asking prices I note from following sales of our particular cars there are a number of cars that have been listed for a long time.

Discretionary investments is hurting the Pagoda market

http://www.carpoint.com.au/used-cars/search.aspx?N=279+1426+4294942924+545+578+4294900205+&RegionID=&Region=(all%20regions)&Model=250SL

Regards Rob

[john.mancini]

This beautifully restored 1971 280SL is one of many fine cars that Brian at Motoring Investments has for sale. I believe his asking price is $98.5K. There probably aren't too many buyers for Pagodas in that pricey neighborhood. The economy aside, what also hurts the high end Pagoda market is that there are too many buyers out there who see W113's for $10K and think THAT is where the market should be. They soon find out that their $10K bargain needs $75K worth of parts and labor. If you could compare that 1971 280SL, in its current excellent condition, with an XKE, vintage Corvette,or Austin Healey 3000, those cars would bring a lot more money. Back in 1971, the 280SL cost twice as much as those aforementioned cars. It was better built, AND, most definitely is a much better car today. With the ever-rising, high cost of original parts for our SL's, I think the future will bring a steady increase in car values. That could be good, or it could be bad, I guess. Back to my nap.

[Mark280SL]

I had taken notice of that car a few days ago and thought it was very nice as are most of the MI cars.

 I see the auction ended at 55K with the reserve not met, I'm glad he is holding out for a higher price. I'm not sure what to make of prices in this troubled economic environment, and Michael is correct in many of his observations.... I was watching the Barrett Jackson auctions last week and there were many very nice cars that sold below what conventional wisdom said they were worth and far below what was spent on restoring them, but also a few (just a few) that went well above.

A general observation is the cars with extensive documentation and some noteworthy special interest feature such as the #1 production Thunderbird off the assembly line had a lot of interest and brought some very good prices but all things considered the scary economy is obviously having an effect. Provenance and special interest of a particular car seem to have more value then ever in this market.

[Joe]

Today's issue of The New York Times, on the Web, has an interesting article about the collector car market, and how it is reacting to the downturn. It is on the front page, accessed through the Collector Car link.
Joe

[66andBlue]

Even considering all of Michael Salemi's caveats it appears that the market is softening. Here is an example what people are willing to offer when a car is listed without a reserve price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300287655706
Looks like a decent car.

[benzportland]

In economic terms this would be considered one of the best indicators of value - the amount it actually sold for on Ebay.  I suspect prices will be falling more as more people become sellers out of necessity and supply exceeds demand. 

[Dash808]

It's sad that he could have made more parting it out.

[Benz Dr.]

Our cars tend to rise slowly in price but are not hurt as badly as those who are going up 20K every year. When those markets nose dive they really hurt a lot of people. Most of the buyers that get hurt are not those we should care much about since they're not real car people and are just buying on spec.

B-J is more surreal than real in some ways. Since it's a no reserve auction, EVERY car sells and it's really down to what two or three people will pay at that time and place. I'm sure if it was a reserve auction a lot of cars would end up going back home on a trailer. However, since it's pretty difficult to get your car into that auction and they come from many miles away, there's no shortage of people willing to roll the dice. Anyone selling their car recently either had to make a choice between keeping their house or moving out in their vintage car. The rest either still have lots of money or they sold off a few cars to buy one that they really want at a great price. Any way you look at it, it's a buyers market right now.

Oddly, there are still lots of restorations taking place. When things go down hill a bit people spend on smaller ticket luxury items. Working away on a restoration might be an example of this as opposed to buying one already finished even if it's probably cheaper to do so in the long run. Most people can't get 50K to buy a car but can manage 1K every month or two towards fixing their car up.

[bsimaz]

Off and on I like to follow these auctions too.   I tend to notice that very few ever meet the reserve price (whatever that may be).   It seems like these auctions are just listed to see what someone would be willing to spend on one of their cars.  I don't think they are actually willing to sell them.   I also see that with some of the more expensive Mercedes too.

[mdsalemi]

Even considering all of Michael Salemi's caveats it appears that the market is softening. Here is an example what people are willing to offer when a car is listed without a reserve price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300287655706
Looks like a decent car.

Oh, I certainly believe this market (as every other market is apparently) is softening and I hope that nobody thought I believe(d) otherwise.  I just wanted to indicate to those who don't necessarily delve into eBay as a frequent buyer or seller, of how difficult it is to judge accurate prices.  If you are not the buyer or the seller, you are only a bystander and you don't really know what has transpired--if anything.  I had two unrelated items on sale last week, both items for more than USD $100.00 and both had early bids (very unusual) and at the last day of the auction, the bids were mysterioiusly "withdrawn".  The ostensible reason was "entered wrong value".  The bid never got off the minimum.  Huh??  Also, I am getting more and more people contacting me to offer lower prices outside of eBay (and eBay's policies).    Bottom line is, just because an auction ended doesn't mean it actually happened; if it did, not necessarily at the price you see.  Frankly, it's pretty wierd and I think getting wierder if that's possible.

I've never bought a car or sold a car on eBay, but it seems the higher the value goes on eBay items, the more prone to peculiarities the transaction is

[Garry]

It can be very dangerous tracking values.  If the wife found out what it is worth then she may not agree to have me buried in it when I die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Worse still, she may want me to sell it to help build our new house

[tuultyme]

I just read this in an article from Vehix:
With the economy fully in the dumper, more than a few are trying to figure out what to do with their stocks that are worth a fraction of what they were just a few months ago. Cooper Classic Cars has a great idea that is sure to appeal to more than a few enthusiastic investors. Trade your worthless stocks for a collectible classic car!
The idea is that Cooper will take your stocks off your hands at their pre crash value in return for an appreciating classic car in your garage. While even the collector car market may be a bit soft, cars are certainly holding their value better than many other investment opportunities. What a great way to put a smile on your face and stop losing money on your stocks! This should also help Cooper move some tin.
Do they currently have any Pagodas in their inventory?
Too bad mine is all tied in a 401K!

[Douglas]

This should also help Cooper move some tin.

I've seen many of their cars. It's more like helping Cooper to move bondo.

[k]

I've seen many of their cars. It's more like helping Cooper to move bondo.

Well said

[thelews]

I just read this in an article from Vehix:
With the economy fully in the dumper, more than a few are trying to figure out what to do with their stocks that are worth a fraction of what they were just a few months ago. Cooper Classic Cars has a great idea that is sure to appeal to more than a few enthusiastic investors. Trade your worthless stocks for a collectible classic car!
The idea is that Cooper will take your stocks off your hands at their pre crash value in return for an appreciating classic car in your garage. While even the collector car market may be a bit soft, cars are certainly holding their value better than many other investment opportunities. What a great way to put a smile on your face and stop losing money on your stocks! This should also help Cooper move some tin.
Do they currently have any Pagodas in their inventory?
Too bad mine is all tied in a 401K!

Yeah, clever gimmick.  Their cars are overpriced, the stocks must be from a list and there's a limit to the credit depending on the price of the car one would be buying.

Bruce, you and some of the Chicago gang coming up to Milwaukee for the Black Forest tech session in April?

[Douglas]

I'm guessing our friend Brian is testing the waters to see if ebay is the right venue for today's market:

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZoldcarguybri

Lots of nice Pagodas for sale here. Personally, I like the California Coupe he's got on the block.

[thelews]

I'm guessing our friend Brian is testing the waters to see if ebay is the right venue for today's market:

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZoldcarguybri

Lots of nice Pagodas for sale here. Personally, I like the California Coupe he's got on the block.

I doubt it.  Ebay = eyeballs = phone calls = potential customers.  I very much doubt any of his cars will sell on Ebay.  Cheap advertising.  Unfortunately, a lot of cheapskates on Ebay.  Get what you pay for.

[66andBlue]

So, are prices going down or staying level?
Brian just sold one of his cars (1969 280SL manual), a well preserved (almost) original with excellent documentation for $39.9K. See: Item number 180332832738.

[bpossel]

I was also wondering if Brian owns these cars or if he is selling on a consignment basis? Probably both
Bob 

[zanone]

This link to collector car price tracker shows 1000 Pagoda auctions and results and the top ten.

http://www.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auctions/make/Mercedes-Benz/model/SL/years/1963-1971/