What questions or concerns would you have about these two cars ?

[ctm14]

   If you were considering the two cars below what questions or concerns would you have?  I am verifying the cars are rust free but wanted to know if you see any issues.  I would also like your opinions on which you favor and why?  I haven't seen them in person yet and am wondering about the color #542 dark red. I noticed that the red car had a soft top color change from beige to black.



1969 silver/black manual Motoring Investments .com

http://www.motoringinvestments.com/XC103.htm


1971 dark red/beige manual w-A/C Fraser Dante .com

http://fraserdante.com/4037%20-%2071%20280SL%20-%20maroon/71%20280SL.html


Thanks for your comments
Chris

[Douglas]

The silver car is, by far, the nicer of the two. There's no comparison.

Just for kicks though, ask the dealer of the dark red car for a photo of the trunk floor underneath the mat. That should tell you everything you need to know.

[J. Huber]

Just my initial reaction: I'd lean toward the silver one. It just looks more original to me. The carpet in the red one is annoyingly non-113. Both strike me as a bit overpriced and I'd probably consider this one first... (no connection -- although I've looked at it cursorily. Or maybe it was curiously...)

http://www.montecitomotors.com/viewer.php?S=11304410000541

[KevinC]

I visited Brian Peters (Motoring Investments) a couple of years ago at his shop in San Diego.  At that time, he had nothing but straight-forward honest to goodness 113's on hand. He seems quite passionate about offering correct examples of a variety of collector cars. I would lean towards the silver car.

[hkollan]

From the (excellent) pictures the silver car looks very nice. That undercarriage with the original factory wax, is almost worth buying the car for alone. Seems one of the front fender was replaced, ideally an original never hit front will show the best hood/fender alignment. In this case it seemed they did a good job fitting the new fender. Brian at MI usually points out when a car has all its original sheet metal intact, in this case he didn't.
The carpet in the red car seems at least partially to have been replaced, but being a late car, velour carpeting was an original factory option, so it could very well be an original replacement. The red one looks pretty OK, but the pictures show too little detail.
 So an inspection or a lot of better quality pictures is need to give a good opinion of that one as I see it.

[Nate]

First of all the dealer selling the Dark Red 113 obviously doesn't know these cars when he refers to the color as Maroon.  It's hard to tell from the pictures because they're taken indoors but it looks like the paint is average and is that a replacement hood?  Can't tell for sure by the pictures, but it's not painted, or painted incorrectly (should be body color).  Check for the body number stamped on the top left corner on the inside of the hood.  Also , the insulation pad under the hood is incorrect.  I would check to see if the nose has been clipped, or maybe the body shop warped the aluminum hood because they didn't know what they were doing and had to use a replacement hood.

[Douglas]

The carpet in the red car seems at least partially to have been replaced, but being a late car, velour carpeting was an original factory option, so it could very well be an original replacement.

Not true. The Wilton Wool carpeting found in, for example, a W111 was not optional on a W113, but I wish it had been.

Neither of the cars in question here has original carpeting, though the silver car has the correct multi-loop/salt & pepper style.

[hkollan]

Chris,

-you point out that the right fender looks to have been replaced, good eyes.  I took a look and the spot welds appear to be missing.  How will a replaced body panel, even if done well effect value?

Not sure what it means for the value of the car. Personally I think an original  front free of accidents etc is the best guarantee that everything fits perfectly.
My experience is that it's very rare to see a car with front fender(s) or frontpanel replaced where the hood, grill and headlights fit as perfect as they do on an
perfect original car. Especially if the fender was replaced a while ago when these cars where just normal used cars, and very few spent the time and effort to get it perfect. In short, to me it does not effect too much how I value the car assuming it's done perfectly. If it's  not, I'd say it's a showstopper, since fixing it could be complicated and expensive and it would be easier to look for another car. 

[hkollan]

Douglas,

I've got good news for you. 

Not true. The Wilton Wool carpeting found in, for example, a W111 was not optional on a W113, but I wish it had been.

It was was indeed an option to get velour (not sure about Wilton, isn't that a carpet brand?) carpets on late a 280 SL.
As you probably know on very early 230 SL velour carpets where available as well.
This fact is also indicated on the SLS website where velour carpet sets is listed as "Sonderwunsch" (special order) for the 280 SL.

[Douglas]

It was was indeed an option to get velour (not sure about Wilton, isn't that a carpet brand?) carpets on late a 280 SL.
As you probably know on very early 230 SL velour carpets where available as well.
This fact is also indicated on the SLS website where velour carpet sets is listed as "Sonderwunsch" (special order) for the 280 SL.

You may be right, but I've never seen anything to support this. You would think the higher-end carpet would've been available as a special order on a Pagoda since it was simply a matter of applying the same pattern to a different carpet, but I've never seen a corresponding option code. Can you cite a specific code that would've indicated this on the data card?

And yes, I do recall seeing that 230SL prototype with the velours carpet.

(I wonder what Gernold over at SL Tech would have to say about this. He seems to follow these kinds of obscure details pretty closely.)

[waltklatt]

Both look to be fine cars, but the red one gives me a bad feeling.  One piece of trim is missing from the drivers door, and the positive cable is disconnected from the battery (possible slow drain somewhere in the wiring). and they are asking more than Motoring.  The silver one is a true one, everything looks to be good and straightforward.
But importantly, go and see the cars in person and drive both of them.  Drive as many as you can to get the feel of the ride.
Do some finger walking through the archives of this SL website and get a list of things to check.
Walter
1967 220SL-diesel