Author Topic: Newbie question about 1970 280SL  (Read 8055 times)

rod330

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Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« on: October 29, 2009, 23:03:34 »
A co-worker is selling his 1970 280SL.  He's had it about 12 years and decided to move on.  I consider it to be in very good "driver" condition and had it evaluated by a mechanic who specializes in old Benz repairs.  The only significant mechanical problem is play in the center draglink and steering sector.  He estimated the repair to be about $1000- 1200.  Cosmetically, the chome is pretty good but does show a little tarnish.  The body has about 5 or 6 small scratches and a couple of minor paint chips.  There are a couple of minor rust bubbles starting to show in the trunk but it's still very solid.  Door alignment is not the best and it seems you have to slam the doors with a little force to make sure they are closed properly.  Hood and trunk alignment is fine.  Floor boards and the area behind the seats are rock solid.   I understand it had a repaint about 15 years ago but it's holding up well.  The interior is excellent although it has an aftermarket radio.  A/C works OK but the blower motor is noisy.  The owner does have the original radio and the hard top which I haven't seen yet.  The soft top is about 3 years old.  The engine bay looks pretty good but certainly not detailed.  The owner has not driven the car very much in the past 5 or 6 years.  It will probably need new tires.  I have a few questions:
1) The oil pressure needle tops out under acceleration but drops back to just below "30" at idle.  Is this normal?  I didn't notice this until after the inspection.
2) The auto transmission seems to rev pretty high before shifting.  Shifting also seems a bit harsh.  Sorry, I know I should provide some data about RPM at shift points but I didn't pay enough attention.  Perhaps this is a characteristic of the car.  Once again, the mechanic didn't mention it as a problem and I didn't notice this until after the inspection.
3) There's a nifty little jumpseat behind the seats...only big enough for a child.  Was this an option?
4) The owner is asking $18,000 which seems fair based on the research I've done....but prices for these things seem to be all over the place.  Considering it's overall condition, it seems like a fair price even if I sink another $2000- 3000 right off the bat.  No pictures...but any feedback on the price?  We're in the Atlanta area.

I know this is a lot of questions and I appreciate any advice and comments.  THANKS

Douglas

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 02:35:54 »
Welcome! Everything you described sounds normal to me except the center drag link is an extremely inexpensive part. Can't imagine where that $1k figure is from. Also, have you had the chance to go over the car with a magnet? You might want to check for inordinate amounts of filler. Cars in this price range are often hiding rust. Have you checked the inner fenders? Keep us posted on your progress & best of luck to you.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 02:38:04 by Douglas »

rod330

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 03:06:01 »
Doug, thank you for your suggestion.  I should have mentioned that I went all over the body with a magnet yesterday.  Aside from the aluminum hood, door panels and trunk lid-- there's no bondo, fiberglass or other fillers to be found whatsoever.  The inner fenders and wheel wells are rock solid.  I know the car has always been kept indoors in the greater Atlanta area for the past 20+ years so that helps a little.  I also have all of the service records going back to the early 1990's and it's been well cared for from what I can see.  I also forgot to mention the odometer is showing 5,000 miles so I'm sure it's at 105,000.
Rich

Douglas

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 12:46:16 »
So far, so good, Rich. There's a wiki on this site about buying a car that many have found helpful. That'll help with things like determining if body panels are original, whether it has the correct motor, etc. If you can find a rust-free car with original body panels and no filler for that price, you've hit a home run. Keep us posted!

menesesjesse

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 14:51:00 »
The draglink repair is definitely a cheaper repair.  I recently replaced the drag link and tierod ends for both sides with profesional alignment and the cost was less then 400.  The car sounds nice i would just chenk the numbers and look to see if the motor is original.  Good luck
Jesse
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graphic66

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 00:08:09 »
Jump seat was an option. I believe there are three pieces, the back, the seat and the floor pan. Sounds good, but remember, almost everthing on these cars is expensive, except for those front end parts of course. A nice set of Vredstien tires can cost more than $1000.00 mounted and balanced. Does there car have the little points on the body on the inside body part of the headlights just beside the chrome headlight surrounds. The doors sound fishy, if one thing on these cars stand out it is the sound of the doors closing, solid and without a question. How do the body panels line up. I have seen some cars put back together so bad the body guy should be charged criminally. A car can look great but if the body panels have been replaced, even that is not really good, but if they are not aligned that is real bad and very expensive to fix. And everone who wants a car painted, better hurry because my body guy claims that in 2012 it will be all water based paint and it doesn,t last. Better buy your paint now before you can't get it. Not sure if this is true, but that is what I heard.

rod330

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 00:17:03 »
Thank you for the follow-ups.  Perhaps I need to find another mechanic to fix the drag link and steering sector issues.

Well, now it's too late for me to turn back.  The seller and I agreed to a price and I'll take ownership next week.  I've known the seller for a long time and he's an good guy so that gives me a little more confidence in the car.  

I've already learned quite a bit from this forum and look forward to being an active participant.

Rich

rod330

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 00:51:06 »
Does there car have the little points on the body on the inside body part of the headlights just beside the chrome headlight surrounds. The doors sound fishy, if one thing on these cars stand out it is the sound of the doors closing, solid and without a question. How do the body panels line up. I have seen some cars put back together so bad the body guy should be charged criminally. A car can look great but if the body panels have been replaced, even that is not really good, but if they are not aligned that is real bad and very expensive to fix.

Graphic66- unfortunately the little points on the body next the headlights are not present.  While the hood and trunk panels line up very well, the driver's side door is going to require some attention.  I'm hearing a metal rattle in the door when the window is rolled up (noise is reduced or eliminated when the window is rolled down a little).  The passenger door is better but not what it should be.  Clearly, the steering and doors will be my first priorities.  Thanks for your help.

Rich

Dash808

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 01:21:26 »
And everone who wants a car painted, better hurry because my body guy claims that in 2012 it will be all water based paint and it doesn,t last. Better buy your paint now before you can't get it. Not sure if this is true, but that is what I heard.

Say what??!!   :o
Chan Johnson
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graphic66

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 02:39:49 »
That metal rattle is most likely the window guides, they fall off into the door. Just another thing to fix and will result in some job creep, meaning you will find more stuff to fix when you open up the door. This always happens with these cars. One little dash bulb out and the next thing you know your soldering the brackets back on the heater core. The car does sound like a very good price though when you see absolutely perfect W113's, and I meam perfect cars bring $75,000.00+. But your car could be $90,000.00 in repairs away from that. Well maybe a strech here, but you get the idea. Just look close for previous wreck damage with those headlight marks gone something was done, and done by someone not intimate with the nuances of these cars. Check the inside front fenders to see if the spot welds are in place where the original fenders were put on. I spotted a great looking black w/ red interior 66' 230SL at a local body shop. I couldn't believe what I saw. The body shop owner was very proud of his job completely restoring the car from a front collision. The gap from the hood to the front nose was about an inch wide and 1/2" low. They obviously just put the nose on and never lined it up. The whole job was wasted. The car was better off before it was fixed from a financial standpoint as it now needed to be redone, or just sell it on Ebay with some strategic photography.
   And, yes it is rumor from my friend, a body man by trade that the water based paint will be required in the near future. It is already law in some parts of California. Water base paint cannot be used without the base/clear process and I don't like the look on many vintage cars, especially if you are an originality nut like myself. My friend claims the water base paint does not hold up anything like good old enamel paint. I am not sure how color and finish matching will happen when only repairing a section of a car such as a wrecked panel.
  Sorry to kind of hijack your thread here with this paint talk, maybe someone will start a thread on it.
   On your oil pressure, many W113's show that exact pressure and some are always pegged. I don't think it is an indication of condition, but more a condition of idle speed and oil viscosity. You really need to do a simple compression check on the engine to determine a baseline of engine wear.
   But remember, you are buying an old car and anything can happen. Just this Summer I pulled out, took off at normal speed and BANG, sudden differential failure. Two months later, several hundreds of dollars and many many hours of work I have 4 wheel disc brakes and a whole new axle in my 230SL. Luckily I have a 250SL parts car, and a member here sold me a great drum brake axle, now I have a spare "original" axle and can return the car to stock at any time. Not that that would ever happen, but I can say I have an original axle and in 30 years it may be worth putting it in. And wow what a difference those 4 wheel discs make.
  The very first upgrade I would do is to put in a set of $100.00 H4 Hella or Bosch headlights with 100/55 watt bulbs.  for the safety factor.

hkollan

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 09:11:07 »
Quote
And everone who wants a car painted, better hurry because my body guy claims that in 2012 it will be all water based paint and it doesn't last. Better buy your paint now before you can't get it. Not sure if this is true, but that is what I heard.

Here in Spain, and I suspect this to be the case in the rest of the EU, more and more paint systems are offered as water based paint only.
 Last year my painter was just a few months late when trying to order old type paint from Glasurit here in Spain as they had just switched to water based paint.
My paint shop has another supplier that still offers the regular(acrylic I guess) paint so we went with that.
Not sure how long lasting the water based will be, but as I understand with metallic paint the clear coat paint layer will still not be waterbased anyway.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 09:17:41 by hkollan »
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

zoegrlh

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 17:53:48 »
You said the car has been in the Atlanta area.  If you live there, I would suggest you take your "new" W113 to Bud's Benz, outside of Atlanta and have them give it a look.  They are honest and have a great knowledge of these cars, and if you need parts, you can get through them thru Bud's.  Ask for David Latham, tell Bob Hyatt sent you.
Bob
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W113, 1970 280SL, Red leather 242 on Silver Gray Met. 180, 4-speed stick, Euro spec, restored
R172 2012 SLK350, Black Premium leather 801 on Mars Red 590, 7-speed auto
W211, 2007 E320 Bluetec, Cashmere MB Tex 144 on Arctic White 650, 7 speed auto

scoot

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2009, 22:08:11 »
Say what??!!   :o
My paint shop also says that the future is water based paint, but he says it is good, but difficult to apply.  Don't know when, but pretty sure LA County will be among the first...
Scott Allen
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rod330

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 23:33:25 »
You said the car has been in the Atlanta area.  If you live there, I would suggest you take your "new" W113 to Bud's Benz, outside of Atlanta and have them give it a look.  They are honest and have a great knowledge of these cars, and if you need parts, you can get through them thru Bud's.  Ask for David Latham, tell Bob Hyatt sent you.
Bob
Bob, my co-worker purchased the car from a doctor who took the car to Bud's Benz.  Service records from the 1990's show all of the work was done at Bud's.  I just checked the web site and they have an impressive operation.   Unfortunately, Bud's is about a 90 minute trip when you bake in traffic conditions but I'll certainly take it there to get the car on the right path-- thanks for the referral to David Latham.

Rich   

zoegrlh

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 06:36:45 »
Rich,
I just talked to David, and he told me you contacted him and that he was going to pick you SL up this week.  Great, I know you will be in good hands.  Let me know the outcome.  I enjoy hearing stories such as this.  This is all the more reason to be a W113 owner and a member of the Pagoda SL group.  Good luck with your "new" adventure.  Owning these chassis cars is a true enjoyable adventure.  Please keep me posted. Oh yea, do you need new leathers.  Let me know, I gave a talk at PUB 2009 on Leather interiors.  Will be able to give you some pointers.
Bob
Robert Hyatt
Williamsburg, VA.

W113, 1970 280SL, Red leather 242 on Silver Gray Met. 180, 4-speed stick, Euro spec, restored
R172 2012 SLK350, Black Premium leather 801 on Mars Red 590, 7-speed auto
W211, 2007 E320 Bluetec, Cashmere MB Tex 144 on Arctic White 650, 7 speed auto

rod330

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Re: Newbie question about 1970 280SL
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 06:56:28 »
Rich,
I just talked to David, and he told me you contacted him and that he was going to pick you SL up this week.  Great, I know you will be in good hands.  Let me know the outcome.  I enjoy hearing stories such as this.  This is all the more reason to be a W113 owner and a member of the Pagoda SL group.  Good luck with your "new" adventure.  Owning these chassis cars is a true enjoyable adventure.  Please keep me posted. Oh yea, do you need new leathers.  Let me know, I gave a talk at PUB 2009 on Leather interiors.  Will be able to give you some pointers.
Bob

Bob, thank you so much for the referral to Bud's Benz.  After speaking with David last week, it was obvious his knowledge of W113's was vastly superior to the local Benz mechanic who did the pre-purchase inspection.  He kindly loaded my baby on a trailer this afternoon to save me the agony of a 2+ trip in horrid Atlanta traffic.  I wasn't home to greet him but my wife said he was very friendly and remembered the car.  I'm sure his shop will do a great job getting me started in the right direction.

Actually, the leather and other interior components are in top notch condition.  The only significant interior problem is an expensive but ugly aftermarket radio.  The prior owner is going to find the original Becker --- another project for the future.