Author Topic: 113 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause  (Read 5997 times)

dsayars

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Update:
Thanks, all, for the replies.

I've tried swapping brake pads, but not tires, as they're brand new. (Still could be worth a try.) Re graphic66 's suggestions, I'll check the pads to see if they move easily. As for the rear, in the fairly recent past I've replaced two blocked hoses and both cylinders (yes, they're drum) and unstuck the emergency brake mechanism on one side. I've never found a case on any car when uneven or missing rear braking has any effect on direction, but I don't say it can't happen. A loose rear wheel suspension, on the other hand, will cause the car to lead while your driving, wandering all over the road--that's what this is one did when the rear spring arm started detaching from the rusted-out undercarriage, which is rebuilt now.

The front end man I don't quite trust now had the theory that worn control arm bushings were allowing the the whole control arm-kingpin-wheel assembly to pull back and toe out on braking. With the long pipe as a pry bar, I just couldn't detect that looseness.

Re front springs, see my followup to w113dude.


Original message:
When I replaced the extra wide tires my 113 came with with 195's close to the original size, the ride improved quite a bit, but it brought out a pronounced pull to the right on braking. (The 220 tires hid the problem, since it was all you could do to  turn them when you wanted to.) Unlike many such pulls, this is not evident as the brakes start to grab, but only as I press harder. Bringing it gently to a stop a low speed, I don't get the pull at all.

I eliminated uneven braking or tire pressure as the problem (new brake lines, pistons not stuck, recirculated the fluid many times with no bubbles) and took to it a trusted front end shop for diagnosis and, if possible, an alignment. The shop checked it out and decided that to align, they needed to replace:

- left tie rod
-both  kingpins
-*all* control arm bushings (four separate kits) on both sides, plus the idler arm bushing (another kit).

The front end man's guess was that the looseness in the right control arm bushings was the cause of the pull. Since the left tie rod was definitely due for replacement,  I did that at home and it gave me an opportunity to check some other things.  With tie rod and drag link removed, I found:

1. No looseness at all in the idler arm, which I greased.

2. Dead steering damper, which I also replaced.

3. Looseness in the right kinpin only, until I lubricated it. Then it  went away.

4. No looseness in any of the control arm bushings that I could detect.  

In the process I lubricated everything that could take grease. After reassembly with the new left tie rod and damper, the pull to the right was still there. I rechecked for control arm looseness by removing the road wheel,  and seeing if I could get some wiggle using a long pipe as a pry bar. (I'd tried this before, but with the wheel on.) They move a very slight amount, but it seemed due to the flexibility of the metal: there was no movement relative to the pivot mountings. Also, there was no difference between the two sides.

Naturally none of these checks can reproduce what happens when the car brakes. But so far I have no indication that this just-replace-everything approach is going to  fix the pull, and in any case it's going to cost in excess of $2500 before I'm done. Does anybody have any ideas?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 04:15:28 by dsayars »

ja17

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Re: 133 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 03:37:26 »
Hello,

Sounds like bad front brake hoses, but I guess these are new. Try cleaning and rotating the brake pads to opposite sides.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

scoot

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Re: 133 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 04:36:57 »
Have you swapped the tires left to right and confirmed that the pull is still to the right?
Scott Allen
'67 250 SL (early)
Altadena, California

graphic66

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Re: 133 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2010, 14:07:34 »
Make sure your brake pads are moving freely. Every set I have installed in my 230SL has needed to be filed on the edges to get them to drop in and move easily. Might not be your problem, but it is helpful and stopped my brake squeal. Is this a four wheel disc car or rear drums. It may be in the rear brakes, just a wild thought, they could possibly cause a pull if they were uneven, such as a stuck caliper or froze wheel cylinder.

dsayars

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Re: 133 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 03:47:12 »
Thanks, I did try that, no change.
Hello,

Sounds like bad front brake hoses, but I guess these are new. Try cleaning and rotating the brake pads to opposite sides.


w113dude

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Re: 113 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 11:31:49 »
I'd also check front spring correct height & sub-frame bushing, if one side is lower than the other sudden braking would pull to one side.

dsayars

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Re: 113 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 04:05:36 »
I'd also check front spring correct height & sub-frame bushing, if one side is lower than the other sudden braking would pull to one side.
The spring heights are uneven, with the driver's side spring lower as per usual. When you say sub-frame bushing, do you mean that rubber pad that comes in variable heights to level the car?

w113dude

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Re: 113 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 11:15:56 »
Sorry, I meant to say sub-frame mounts. (under the fenders ) just make sure the side that pulls the rubber is in good shape,
One other possibility, I'm not sure if you have already covered is the front wheel bearing, if that is out of adjustment could easily do what you are describing.

Shvegel

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Re: 113 pulls to right on braking after tire swap, no obvious cause
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 16:18:55 »
When you are checking for play are you doing it with the suspension loaded? In other words are you jacking it up under the control arm so the suspension is in the same position it would be with it sitting on the tire? If not you should try it and see if you can spot the play in the front end.

Also keep in mind that NEW means Never Ever Worked. You might want to take another look at those front brake hoses. Especially if they have ever been squeezed off to keep them from leaking when changing a caliper.

Since your problem started with the tire swap can you rotate front to back or side to side and check again?