Fuel in France

[Peter van Es]

Dear all,

since April a lot of petrol stations in France sell E10 fuel as their 95 octane fuel. This fuel consists of 10% bio-ethanol. Sometimes E10 is sold next to the standard Euro 95, but sometimes it replaces it completely. At petrol stations the new fuel can be recognised as SP95-E10, where SP indicates Sans Plomb (unleaded), 95 for the octane rating, and E10 for the 10% Bioethanol.

Mercedes-Benz (Daimler) has researched which cars can utilize this fuel without problems. The attached service information bulletin SI47.00-P-00002A (in German) gives these details. In summary, it means that all Mercedes-Benz cars can use E10 with the exception of:

• cars without a 3 way catalytic converter, ie all cars prior to and including 1985 (i.e. our Pagoda's)
• cars with a carburettor
• 4 cylinder CGI cars of the first generation (C200CGI, CLK200CGI t/m 2005)
• AMG cars or Maybach cars

For cars (like ours) unable to utilise E10 Mercedes-Benz recommends using “Superplus 98”.

Peter

[France]

Merci, Peter,

Looks like all the old cars in the garage will have to use 98 now...only the 500SL can run on bio.  Running the fleet's getting more expensive!

[SteveK]

This is an interesting one.  I wonder what the difference is between ethanol and bio-ethanol?   I know that most of the fuel in the US has up to 15% ethanol in it at certain times of the year.   I have some refinery friends so will ask them the question the next time we're together.

[Peter van Es]

Running the fleet's getting more expensive!

I know. I was in Michael's car in the US last week, and filling up cost a small number of dollars (I forgot how many exactly, but something like $40). Today I filled up my Pagoda in the Netherlands, 70 liters at € 94,64 is $134. And that was 95 octane, not the premium 98, which is dearer still.

Our hobby is a lot more expensive here in Europe!

Peter

[Dash808]

 
   
     
       
         
           
             
               
                 
                   



(yes, I'm bored)

[Peter van Es]

 :'(

Well, I'm poor. I drove to the German Classic Car days yesterday, and back. A total of over 500 kms. The car has never performed better, and is really running well. I averaged motorway speeds of 120-130 km/h (about 4250-4300 rpm) and when refuelling on the way back I noticed I had done over 500 km's on one tank! In all my years of owning my car, I can't recall ever having reached that number after refilling. I calculated my fuel mileage to be 8 km/l or 18.88 mpg over the journey.

I'll post some more information on the Classic Car Days at Schloss Dyck in Germany soon (including photographs). This was a great event, to be recommended to anyone in driving distance. It is near Dusseldorf so reachable within a days drive by a lot of people in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and France. It's like a German version of the Goodwood festival of speed. Beautiful cars in the Concourse d'Elegance, driving events, a closeby car park for classic cars which was enormous... people dressing up in period gear, and Karin and I picnicked next to the track.

Peter

[Rolf]

I am a refinery worker in the states. I am in operations and blend gasoline. Most of the gas we blend contains 10% ethanol. The only gas we blend that doesn't contain ethanol is conventional regular (87 octane), which is not sold in my area. In the mid-west there is gasoline which contains 85% ethanol, called E85 and not for use in our cars. I have had no problem using 93 octane, which does contain 10% ethanol. Ethanol does increase the miles per gallon. As far as I know ethanol and bio-ethanol are one in the same.

[hkollan]

According to  Mercedes the only models approved for use with gasoline containing ethanol are the ones that came equipped with regulated 3 way catalytic converters. That would exclude most cars produced before 1985  obviously including all W113s.

Hans

[Ulf]

Does anyone know the technical reasons why the fuel with 10% ethanol is not recommended and if there are any ways of resolving this (adjustments, additives etc.)? It seems like the entire world is moving in that direction, which may be annoying, but a good thing in the big picture in terms of the climate changes (if you believe in them) and the coming shortage of fossil fuels that we may start experiencing in the next 15-20 years. As we can't replace all cars with electric cars (although I would mind having a Tesla or a Fisker Karma i my garage next to the Pagoda) getting our cars to run on alternative fuels like 2-generation (made from waste rather than food crops) bio-fuels is clearly a way to make our cars survive  in the decades to come. I do realize that I may sound like a tree-hugging neo-hippie here, but I'm just trying to be pragmatic :-)

[Rolf]

What I was saying is that the only gas I can get in my area contains 10% ethanol. I have been using it for several years without a problem. I don't have a choice.

[graphic66]

Ethanol actually lowers your MPG, it has less power per unit than gasoline, 10% ethanol wont make a big difference in mileage, according to Wikipedia about 3 % less mileage. My 230 SL ran noticeably better on fuel without 10% ethanol, which in New York Police State is no longer available. Ethanol is not as good in our cars as gasoline in my opinion and experience. Also some claim that ethanol breaks down some rubber components, quite a bit of controversy on that though. Most of the W113's have higher compression ratios, and therefore like the colder burning high octane fuel. There has been discussion here on this before.

[Ulf]

I'm not sure that it is the ethanol that breaks down rubber components, but there has been a lot of talk up here concerning bio-diesel (mainly rapeseed) breaking down rubber gaskets and hoses. In the "old days" it was common to add ethanol to the fuel in the winter to prevent condensation and "frozen" carburettors - I've done that on my classic Land Rover this winter with a notable, positive difference. I know that our cars don't have carbs and that the amount used don't add up to 10%, but I'm convinced that the negative side-effects are minimal - hope I'm right :-)

[GGR]

My daily driver is a W111 Coupe equipped with a D-jet 3.5 engine. I run it on 93 which I believe contains 10% ethanol in the DC area. I did 70.000 miles in the past two years and so fa so good. Mu recently acquired Pagoda is receiving the same treatment although yearly mileage will much lower.