Author Topic: grille screw discrepancies  (Read 10215 times)

lurtch

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grille screw discrepancies
« on: May 15, 2011, 20:50:55 »
Hello All,

 I recently acquired a set of cupped finish washers from Germany for the eight grille surround attachment screws.They have an M-B part number and packaging, but they do not look quite right.

I have always believed that when an oval head screw is pocketed down into a finish washer, the dome of the screw head should be flush with the cupped edge of the washer.  After all these years of designing and building things - - - am I wrong about this ?

The photo of the screws I bought says it all. Not only is the screw head too big , but why is a zinc plated screw mated with a stainless steel washer ?  Needless to say, his will never get  past a Concours Judge inspection team. I should know - -  Pete Lesler trained a group of us last summer.

On my car the drilled hole that accepts these screws  is way over-sized now, the result of  previous owners using #12 sheet metal screws instead of the proper #10's ( or should they be #8's ?).  To get back to the way it should be, I am going to have to install a Tinnerman nut-plate or make something that will do the job.

In my nuts and bolts bins I have been able to find suitable replacements for the screws, see photo, so I am forging ahead.

Regards, Larry in CA





 

 
Larry Hemstreet  in  N. Cal.

1966  230SL  (restored) Met. Anthracite w/ Maroon leather
1981  300TD-T (Concours condition, 86K, GETRAG 5sp.)
1982  300TD-T (parted out)
1986  560SEC (totaled)
1991  300TE (gifted)
1998  E320 (sold)
2004  E320 wagon (gifted)
2008  CLK550 Cabriolet

Garry

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 22:32:07 »
Larry,

I have just had the same problem with my grill and replaced the wrong screws from the body shop with what I think are the correct screws but had the enlarged holes problem.  I used Joe A's method of using a piece of copper wire in the hole to start with the screw and it worked a treat and the screws gripped and the copper does not show.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

66andBlue

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 04:33:03 »
Hi Larry,
not sure whether I am understanding your question. Did you buy the cup washers and the screws together or are the from different sources? If you bought the together then the seller made a mistake.  
First, the screws should not be gray steel but chromed and should be oval not a pan head - but it is a bit difficult to see what their profile is. What is the p/n on the bag? The should be neither a #10 nor a #8 but a metric DIN screw!!  The cup washers your photo do not look correct either.
Do you need the correct p/n for the cup washers and the screws?
This shows what the cup washers should look like: http://cgi.ebay.de/370502537270
and here are the matching screws: http://cgi.ebay.de/370502537322
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 04:56:51 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Shvegel

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2011, 01:38:02 »
Thanks for pointing that out. I bought the same set a year ago and never looked at them just threw them up on the shelf with the grille. Now I am looking for chrome DIN screws.

Richard Madison

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 00:39:39 »
In case it may help, here is a photo of a Grill screw thaat was pronounced "correct" by long time judge of Pagodas.

Richard M, NYC
1969 280 SL, Tunis Beige, Euro Model (Italy).

Garry

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 03:22:59 »
I thought the screws were meant to be chrome plated.  The screw looks like it is zinc plated?
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

thelews

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 12:09:08 »
I can safely say that mine are original and look like 280SL71 above.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Benz Dr.

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 18:07:15 »
I can safely say that mine are original and look like 280SL71 above.

John,
unless you're taking your car to a MBCA event where it will be judged by '' trained '' experts, what real difference does it make? Aside from knowing that you have a perfect, correct car, who's going to see it, or care for that matter?

 I mean, it's not like we ( the web forum members ) have a dedicated car show or judged events, right?
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

thelews

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 18:36:34 »
John,
unless you're taking your car to a MBCA event where it will be judged by '' trained '' experts, what real difference does it make? Aside from knowing that you have a perfect, correct car, who's going to see it, or care for that matter?

 I mean, it's not like we ( the web forum members ) have a dedicated car show or judged events, right?

That's a fair statement and someday maybe there will be a clublike judging that is fun and educational.  Some folks want to be correct for their own enjoyment (bragging rights?) and I just offered mine as a high likelihood of being correct considering its history.  They appear to be the same as what's used on my 190 SL.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 18:38:22 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

66andBlue

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 19:48:51 »
I can safely say that mine are original and look like 280SL71 above.
So, are the screws chromed or Zinc plated?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Dave

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2011, 12:38:36 »
Hi All
New Pagoda owner here.  I have sheet metal screws in my grille and my cowl vent (duh! - who would do that?).   I've replaced a few missing tinnerman nuts, etc. but here's my question -

On the top of the cowl vent, I have an empty hole.  Is there some sort of fastener that goes in there?  If so, what's it supposed to do?


Naj ✝︎

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2011, 13:59:17 »
Hi All

On the top of the cowl vent, I have an empty hole.  Is there some sort of fastener that goes in there?  If so, what's it supposed to do?



Windscreen washer jet!

Naj
68 280SL

thelews

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 22:31:30 »
So, are the screws chromed or Zinc plated?

Looks like chrome to me
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Dave

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 22:41:13 »
Thanks Naj.  Looks like I have some work to do.

66andBlue

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2011, 00:54:42 »
Perfect John, you get a price.  ;)
The p/n for the screw is 007983 003216. That means DIN 7983 and DBL (Daimler Benz Liefervorschrift=supply spec)) 8454 which specifies a lens head counter sunk screw, 3.9 x 13 mm, finish: chrome.
The p/n for the counter sunk washer is N900056 003507  - about $3/each from MB - ouch!
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

jaymanek

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2011, 20:29:50 »
I recently replaced mine with parts from mercedes and have the ones like the red car above, both the countersunk washer and screw are chrome..

benz55

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Re: grille screw discrepancies
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2011, 14:38:17 »
Im fairly sure the screws and CS washers should all be chromed. There is a kit below with the correct MB parts for reference.

http://www.authenticclassics.com/Grille-Installation-Kit-for-Mercedes-230SL-250SL-2-p/auth-002998.htm
1966 230SL / 4 Speed / Black / Black MB-Tex