Status ZFS 5-20 Imitation trans.?

[rocketman1]

Good Evening Gentleman
Has anybody heard what the status is with the 250 orders for the S 5-20's?
Did they get 250 orders?
Also, what about the repair kits which "contain both synchronizer sets and bearing and sealing kits". "These parts have already been installed in various Maserati vehicles". Or so they say in there advertisement.
Has anybody purchased the repair kits thru MB Classic Cars in Irvine, Ca. USA, or from ZF in Germany, in the last 90 days??
rocketman1
1964 230 SL, ZFS 5-20
1982 500 SL

[Garry]

Firstly there were no 'imitation' transmissions on offer, only imitation ZF 5 speed Pagodas   There are only 250 genuine ZF manufactured units being put on the market in 2012 against held orders.  Last I heard they were in excess of 220 orders and that was nearly 6 months ago.

Those people who have ordered units have received a letter setting out the process and timing.  As I said in an earlier comment on your other post, don't hold your breath for parts, I was surprised that you pulled your gearbox so early in expectation of spares. I will be amazed if you get parts coming out of production in 2012 ready for sale.  Maybe late in the year but I would not have any bets on it.

Good luck.

Garry

[George Des]

Yeah. I agree with Garry. I don't think you should hold your breathe on the spare parts. I've yet to get any response from ZF on any of my inquiries about them. I'm not one to take shots, and I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt the first inquiry or two, but I've tried about 5 or 6 times and have gotten nil in return. Their customer relations at leat via their website is horrible!
Several others have had similar experiences, so it's not just me.

George

[rocketman1]

Garry & George, Thanks for the info, doesn't sound too positive. George, I to have sent several e-mail's to Zf Germany and gotten no response.
Idea: The factory for these tranmissions is in Friedrichshafen. When I google there plant, Italy,Switzerland,Stuttgart,Munich is very close.
I know there are Pagoda club members in this area, (because they have responded via e-mail).
Why don't we STOP this chatter, and somebody go to the plant and talk to the person in charge of this production run!!!!!!!!
This isn't brain surgery. If I lived within 200 KM, I would of been there months ago.
Sorry, it's monday morning here in the states.
Maybe some good news.
I actually talked to a ZF representive (here in the states) on the phone (wed. 11-16-11) No Kidding!
He was very nice and inquisitive about the old and new to be built ZF S5-20 transmissions.
He works at the plant that, get this, installs ZF -6 transmissions on New Ford F350 Trucks !!
Garry, I gave him the ZF part number for the, "Driving Shaft Assembly repair kit",less the Driving shaft of course. I heard him enter it into his computer, and guess what, He said "David I show that's a GOOD part number for that kit" I said what does  that mean. He said, if it's in the system, it's AVAILABLE. How do we find out. He said he was leaving Monday the 21st for the week (thanksgiving) and would be back the 28th. He said he would contact Germany and find out where to get these kits.
Again, super nice guy, I told him some of us had his "Holy Grail" Zf 5 transmission. If kits were available, we would make him King for the day.
I don't know, I wish and hope he's right!
rocketman1

[mbzse]

....have sent several e-mail's to Zf Germany and gotten no response
.../...
I gave him [US ZF worker] the ZF part number for the, "Driving Shaft Assembly repair kit"

Did you get the Number for this kit from this website:
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/company/tradition/s5_20/spare_parts_s5_20/spare_parts_s5_20.html
As far as i know, the spare part kits for our ZF 5-speed boxes, as per this website, are available for delivery
Order with appropriate spare part No from US ZF representative, address which you find via ZF web as above
/Hans in Sweden

.

[Garry]

oAs Hans said, I am sure you can get the bearings and seals for an overhaul repair kit but just trying to get a gear or shaft etc. They just don't seem to be available or were not last time I tried.

[George Des]

Bearings and seals are common items that you can pick up much cheaper by going to a bearing/seal house. The roller bearing is LM67048 and the mating race for it is LM67010. The ball bearings are the SKF 6307s with snap ring. I'm sure you could find the needle bearings as well. The nuts, bolts, washers and studs are common DIN and metric sizes available most anywhere. The parts that you have to get through ZF or from a used box are the gears, shafts, castings, the reverse switch kit, bellhousing, etc.

I have asked one of our members to place an order with one of the European ZF dealers because I don't even know where there is a ZF dealer in my area. He has graciously done that for me but he has not yet seen the part. In his last correspondence with ZF  they told him it is on back order.

George

[rocketman1]

Thanks Hans, looks like were getting somewhere. Garry give me a break, I'm just trying to help the GROUP.
First you tell me, "Don't hold your breath, and why the heck did you pull your trans." Too now," oh yah, those kits have allways been around?
Were a very very small group of people from around the world with a common intrest, lets try to work together. I can find a million reasons why we can't find or fix something on these cars! However there's allways someone or someway to get it done. I'm that kind of person.
George thanks for those bearing numbers. Also, please let us know what your friend finds out from the European ZF dealer.
Mit freundlichen GruBen !!
rocketman1

[George Des]

Hans,

Something that may be useful for those of us who have the ZF box is an interchange list for the parts that go in the S5-20 box built for the Pagoda and the ones for the Maserati. It appears Maserati used a number of different ZF models. Parts for all the Maserati ZF boxes including the S5-20 show up fairly frequently on ebay either new or used. Problem is even when it says it came from the Maserati S5-20 you can not be sure it will work in the Pagoda S5-20. For example, there is a new Maserati S5-20 input shaft being advertised on Ebay along with a slider.  The housing for the Pagoda S5-20 as you know is cast iron and that for the Maserati is cast aluminum with a completely different shifter arrangement. The internals look the same but my guess is that they may not be exactly. Not sure why ZF gave these boxes the same number!

George

[DaveB]

You are right there. Judging by the exploded parts diagram in the S5-20 workshop manual, all three shafts differ between the Maserati and Mercedes versions, plus additional differences in the reverse gear synchronizer body. Why indeed give them the same i.d. number?

[George Des]

It is really strange isn't it that the Maserati version of these parts seem to be much more readily available than those for the 113s?

George

[mbzse]

As far as i know, the spare part kits for our ZF 5-speed boxes, as per this website, are available for delivery
/Hans in Sweden

I now have some firm information, fresh from the technical representative of the German Club Pagode:
The parts for the gear boxes have been tooled up, and the parts are produced. The first assembled S5-20 gear boxes will be ready for factory testing at ZF soon.
Deliveries of the pre-ordered gear boxes will commence out to customers in the first months of 2012.
There will be step-by step instructions published, showing how to shorten the drive shaft and other modifications necessary for mounting these gear boxes in a W113.

If you have issues with placing orders or receiving replies from ZF, you can mail to:
michael.lenhardt@sl-club-pagode.de  (English is fine)

Certainly looks like it is going to be an exciting 5-speed Pagoda spring for some of us    
 /Hans in Sweden

.

[Peter van Es]

As it happens, Achim and I are meeting with Michael on monday the 28th of November... on another topic... I'll prepare him for a deluge of mails from our group... 

Peter

[rocketman1]

Hans, I just got an e-mail from ZF Friedrichshafen AG Germany. I can't believe it!
They comfirm what you said, that the first ones will be off line in Jan.
They also sent me a different list of parts that you had mentioned in your previous e-mail. DaveB has the same one and that's what I've been looking at.
George your right about the Maserati parts not being allways the same as our pagoda ones, but some are.
 The list I got breaks out the two different trans. part nos.
I sent in my reguest for the W113 trans. parts that they show availaible. We'll see what happens next week.
Best Regards
rocketman1

[George Des]

Rocketman1.

Could you post the parts list ZF sent to you?

George Des

[rocketman1]

George, yes I'll get that out this week.
David
AKA:rocketman1