The Mystery Bellhousing - 111 250 21 05

[ctaylor738]

I have a 280 engine (it came from Joe Alexander's rally sedan), and I am considering putting it in my 230SL and selling its almost new engine to fund the "Miscellaneous" category of my 280SL project, which is growing faster than the federal deficit.  I am also toying with the idea of putting Joe's engine in my 200 fintail.  In either case, I need a bellhousing.

Some time ago I acquired a 196x 280S 4-speed (the have the top shift trans) and used the engine in a 114 250C that I wanted to convert to a manual trans.  I needed to get a different bellhousing for the side lever trans that the 114 uses.  So a couple of nights ago, I hauled out the 280S bellhousing and stuck it on Joe's engine.  It seems to fit perfectly.

What bothers me is the PN, 111 250 21 05.  I can't find this PN anywhere.  The correct PN seems to be 111 250 20 05.

I am slightly concerned that there is some small detail that will stop my plan from working - can anyone shed some light on this PN?

[ja17]

Hello Chuck,

So you finnally did get that engine. Glad to see it go to someone who will use it.  Hope it serves you welll. 

Most likely, you are looking at the casting number on the bell housing.  This is often times different from the MB part number (not always) but more often than not.

If I recall, there may be one or two engine transmission bolt holes which do not align on the W114 vs W108 easy to resolve, just swap the cast alum. mounting plate.

I am not sure what parts are not working for you, maybe you could explain a bit more.  Sounds like you may just need a W114 intermediate plate.

The front accessories, front pulley, water pump, power steering bracket on this engine were changed to those parts on the W114 style engine which had a shorter configuration so this engine would fit in the shorter W114 engine compartment. I think this will still work fine in the larger W113 or W111 chassis, you will have a bit more room between the radiator and the fan. The PS bracket is actually custom made. In any case all the original "longer parts" from the W113 or W108 will bolt right up if you need to change back. Also you will need to change the engine side supports back to the particular chassis you are going to put the engine in.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[ctaylor738]

Hmmm.

I took the BH off and inspected it closely.  The 111 250 21 05 number is on the top under a star emblem.  There is no other number on the BH.  It fits perfectly on the engine plate on your ex engine.

The shorter front-end accessories would be a good thing, if it goes in the fintail since it is a 110, not a 111.  I am pretty sure this will need the radiator that fits in the frame, along with the oveflow tank, like the 230. 

I think it would be neat to have an innocent-looking 200 with its column shiift but with the 280 under the hood!

[ja17]

Yes, that engine will certainly smoke the tires on that fintail

In that case just use the engine side supports from the old fintail engine.  If you use it in an SL, you will need the SL engine side supports. The ones on the engine should be for a W114 chassis.

[glenn]

Chuck, Is the 230 engine for sale?  Glenn

[ctaylor738]

Yes.  I need to do something.  I will send you a PM.

[Raymond]

Chuck,
When I was preparing for the 5-speed swap into my car, I bought a bell housing to do the test fitting before taking the car apart.  It has the same number.  Everything seemed identical until I pulled the car apart.  The center tube that shrouds the input shaft is attached to the housing.  The throwout bearing slides on that tube.  The outside diameter of the tube differed about a millimeter from the original one in my car.  It was just enough to keep the throwout bearing from fitting.  I had to have it machined down.  You might want to check that. 

[ctaylor738]

Thanks, Ray.

Probably, somewhere, there's a paper parts book that lists that number with a different throwout bearing.

[ja17]

Hello,

I think the tubes are interchangable so the bell housing should work with either.

[ctaylor738]

Hmm. In the EPC, the "guide tube" is actually part of the transmission, so that's not the reason for the different PN for the bellhousing. 

[Raymond]

Well, Joe is right, (no surprise there) the tube is bolted to the inside of the bell housing and can be interchanged.  I don't know why the EPC would say it's part of the transmission unless they were supplied with the tranny for some kind of matching fit or they are mistaken.

[ctaylor738]

But you had one (a tube) in your car, and the throwout bearing fit, correct?  Then you bought the bellhousing with a tube that was larger in diameter, so the throwout bearing wouldn't fit.  So that says to me that the tubes are different.  I will chase this some more when I have some time.

My goal is not to be right or wrong but to have a setup that will work out of the box.  

[ja17]

Hello,

I believe there is an early and late tube which are different diameters and interchangeable. There are also different early and late throwout bearings and throwout bearing mounting tubes which are different diameters. You need to keep the right tube with the right throwout bearings and mounting sleeves. One version is very scarce as I recall.

[George Des]

Chuck,

Old topic, but did you ever resolve this? I've got a four spped transmission that I'm planning to swap out temporarily while I do some work on my ZF box. The bellhousing I have is the same as the one you listed (111 250 21 05). Looks like the release bearing I have is from a 230SL and it slides on the tube properly so perhaps if this is a 280SL or other bellhousing, someone may have already swapped out the front piece w/bearing tube on mine. Just want to make sure that this bellhousing will mate up with the 230SL engine I have w/o any issues.
 
(I moved out of Falls Church last April and am now up in Md near Harper's Ferry. Did you ever get to use the dolly?)

George Desiderio

[ctaylor738]

Hi George,

Sorry, I didn't chase the bellhousing issue any further.

The dolley is on permanent loan to a construction materials yard, and much appreciated there.