Author Topic: Pagoda prices  (Read 7713 times)

69280sl

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Pagoda prices
« on: January 17, 2012, 01:34:03 »
Has anyone else noted that most (not all, but at least many) pagodas listed on eBay are listed in the price range of $50K - 60K? Is the pagoda finally showing the price appreciation that many have predicted?

Gus
Gus

68 280sl, signal red/ beige/black softtop. Car # 1084

MichaelB.

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 02:57:48 »
Yes

hank sound

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 03:22:11 »
Hey,  King Prugna,

You should know !!!! :D

Cheers mate,

Hank

IXLR8

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 16:26:57 »
Hi--

Your post piqued my interest, so I checked out US eBay Pagoda prices.

All the decent cars seem to be above $45,000.

Several in the mid-teens to mid-thirties look pretty good at first, but when you see the pictures of the interior, engine compartment and underside, you realize the expense and manhours to bring these cars back put you right back up in the mid-forties.

I had thought my labor was worth about 10 cents an hour bringing my 230SL back to life, but now it llooks like I might be up to 20 or 25 cents per hour.



the other Joe

Jonny B

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 03:24:25 »
There were two at Barrett Jackson (and several others at the other Arizona auctions) a 280 SL and a 230 SL. I was able to take a look at the 280 SL (in white) and it was so-so or thereabouts (and I was not able to take a look at the engine bay), it went for US$ 34,000 including the buyers premium. The 230 SL was in red, and it also went for US$ 34,000.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

franjo_66

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 02:40:56 »
Prices down here in Australia seem to have taken off as well. You will pick up a well-maintained daily driver for around AUS$50K. Very good to excellent cars are selling for up t0 AUS$150K

I have noticed that a few LHD models now being brought in from the USA for sale here to take advantage of the strong AUS$. Obviously priced lower than the RHD versions.

Yes, I think that the status of our cars is appreciating well

Rgds
Frank
Franjo

1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
1983 BMW 735i
1986 560 SEC
1991 500SL
1982 Holden Statesman DeVille

thelews

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 13:49:24 »
I see that at Gooding, over the weekend, Michael's original '66 230 SL went for $74,500, and a '68 280 SL went for $48,400.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

pj

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 14:18:00 »
Hi John,
I'd never heard of Gooding before. The same weekend as Barrett-Jackson! Amazing that Speed Channel could spend 40 hours or something like that on BJ in prime time, and yet the Gooding auction is nowhere to be seen.

Also interesting that the 300SL roadsters go for about 10x what a Pagoda will fetch, and the Gullwings a few times more even than that.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

thelews

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 15:18:25 »
There's RM Auctions too, as well as others.  Just follow them online, see the catalogs and the results (when posted).
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

twistedtree

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 18:57:55 »
Can anyone point to a comprehensive description of the various quality grades and how that maps to price ranges?  Extra credit if the descriptions are tailored to Pagodas.

Here are the categories as I see them, but I'm the first to admit confusion....

1) "Barn Find" ($7k to $15k)  Anything that is complete and has more prospect than becoming a parts car.  Doesn't run, so major repairs may be required.  Body condition can be assessed and will have a big impact on value, but without running you are taking a big risk on what works and what doesn't, and what it will take to get it back on the road.

2) "Fixer-upper" ($10k to $20k)  Anything that runs and drives, and is not a rust bucket.  These can be pretty ugly, but everything is there and the basics work.  It will need a thorough going through mechanically to make it 100% operational.  Probably has rust either currently or in the past.  Rust may have been fixed properly or poorly.  To make it a pretty car will require some combination of paint, chrome, interior, carpet, soft top.  These can be good candidates for restoration because there is no hiding what they are, and they will be priced accordingly.

3) "Low-end Driver" ($15k-$30k)  Runs, drives well with no obvious mechanical problems, and looks good.  Paint, chrome, seats, carpet, wood, soft top are all intact and presentable, but subject to minor defect.  These items may be original and/or subject to past restoration but will be holding up well, or they might also be newly replaced.  Under the hood and under the body repairs will have been made with readily available parts.  Things like batteries, battery cables, replacement wires, clamps, screws, and hoses are unlikely to be original or correct material/parts. Gold and Silver spray paint is also likely in place of correct plating and metal finish.  From the outside these cars look much alike, but on close inspection wide variation can be found.  Poor body work with lots of bondo, poorly patched rust spots, rust sprayed over with undercoating, and painted-over problem areas distinguish the high-end of this category from the low-end.  These are often passed off as #4 cars to unsuspecting buyers.

4) "High-end Driver" ($30k-$50k) Same as #3, but parts and material are largely correct, body work has been done well, rust repairs were done properly, and it's not just a cover-up job.  Where possible correct materials, hoses, clamps, etc have been used to maintain originality.  Capable of winning a local or regional show.

5) "Freaks of Nature" ($50k and up) These are the cars that bring the big $$, and cost the big $$.  They might be a completely original car that has been very well preserved and is a unique time capsule.  Complete documentation of history and ownership will validate authenticity.  A car in this category could also be a meticulous restoration where everything is stripped down, refinished, and brought back to like-new condition.  Every screw, band, clamp, bracket, washer, hose, nut, bolt, etc will be correct in condition, finish, and fit.  A car in this category could also be of unique provenience, e.g. the John Lennon 230SL.

Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

GGR

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 20:25:10 »
I noted that non running Pagodas in need of a complete restoration including a lot of rust and trashed interiors and tops were mostly going for more than $10.000 on eBay. Putting these cars right is at least a $30.000 to $40.000 affair and that's while doing most of the work yourself. By comparison, a high end driver at $35.000 is a much better deal.

mdsalemi

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 20:42:16 »
Can anyone point to a comprehensive description of the various quality grades and how that maps to price ranges?  Extra credit if the descriptions are tailored to Pagodas.

John Olson, creator/editor of SL Market Letter, has been following all SLs and in fact, all collectible Mercedes for years.  He publishes a newsletter, and at least annually updates a Mercedes line with precisely the information you are looking for.  He had a categorization with description.  You many not always agree with him, but tell me where is there universal agreement on anything?  Really?  He does not operate in a vacuum, but rather with a group of advisors that work with real world data.  It's a moving target...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
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twistedtree

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 21:23:05 »
Thanks Michael.  Is that a subscription news letter?  I went and looked at it a while ago (I think on your advice) and my take-away was that it was a subscription service.  That would make sense for a dealer or the like, but for a laymen like me probably not.

I certainly agree there is no set definition, and I have no real attachment to any.  Where I struggle is taking the very brief definitions that I have seen and mapping them to what I see in my garage, and what I've seen in the other cars that I've looked at first hand.

I understand the fixer-uppers, and I understand (mostly) the really special, unique examples that bring $100k and more.  Where I struggle is the in-between - say the $20k-$50k range.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

mdsalemi

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 21:51:40 »
Yes it is a subscription newsletter, but the pricing is just one small component or element of it.  If you are interested in collectible Mercedes, with price being only one portion of your interest, there are plenty of discussion topics worthy of the subscription cost.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

JamesL

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 09:24:37 »
This is strong money - if they get it

But it has some nice touches - firewall pad/spotwelds. Not sure about the more modern MB radio but that aso could be worse
http://www.hiltonandmoss.com/v/171/mercedes-280-sl/1968/280-sl/
James L
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twistedtree

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Re: Pagoda prices
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 11:56:02 »
It would be very interesting to know what it ultimately sells for.  To me that appears to be a high-end driver and worth something in the $30k to $50k range depending on what it's like underneath.  $100k (rough equivalent of 75K GBP) seems way high.  I think there is likely a big difference between asking prices and selling prices on most cars.  And of course one selling technique is to use a high asking price to assert the condition of the car, even if it isn't justified, then wait for an unsuspecting buyer to fall for it.  When I was looking for cars 2 years ago I'd say most of what I saw fell into that category.  It was high-end dealers with very pretty cars, but they were all lipstick on a pig.  I remember one with an ask price of $52k and I told the guy I didn't think it was worth more than $20k.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi