SEAT! (Winter Project)

[mdsalemi]

Well, after several years of thinking about it, THIS year I decided to actually do something about it.  My winter project will be tackling the driver's seat.

Friday afternoon, I drove the SL up north about 155 miles to it's winter resting place.  Shortly after cleaning it all up, and moments before covering it for the long winter's rest, I removed the driver's seat.  We took the seat home; believe it or not the seat in its entirety fit into the trunk of a Taurus!

That one bolt near to the seat adjuster proved to be a bear to remove.  I'll have to come up with a proper tool for reinstallation, as the tools I have won't do it.  Ideas are welcome.  There does not seem to be adequate clearance anywhere to get a proper wrench on it.

I took a quick look underside the seat, and do not see any obvious broken springs or anything.  They would have been replaced/repaired 10 years ago during the restoration.  The horsehair pad was changed too, at that time.

That does not mean I don't want a firmer--much firmer--seat than I have.  Any suggestions on proceeding would be welcome.  I know that Bud's makes or sells some seat internal parts, and I'll be looking there.

Those with experience in "firming up" a seat, or taking one apart--PLEASE weigh in here.  I'd like to hear from you.

Lo and behold, a large amount of detritus along with a long missing charge card were found underneath said seat!  Those of you who may have attempted cleaning under your seat (as I have numerous times) know how hard it is.  I had no idea how unsuccessful I actually was until I removed it and saw all that junk (along with a pocket full of change!) under there.

[Larry & Norma]

If you tilt the seat forward it will push back a little further and
make getting at that bolt a tad easier.
I put a carpet square under the horsehair in my seat, almost
the exact size just a little trimming required.

[mdsalemi]

If you tilt the seat forward it will push back a little further and
make getting at that bolt a tad easier.

That part I figured out; though I would say it made getting that bolt out "possible" as opposed to "impossible" 
As I was working alone, I actually tied a bungee around the seat to the steering wheel to hold it forward!

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, Michael,

Do you have the correct bolts for the front of the seat?
These bolts are 8mm dia. and normal ones have a 13mm hex head. The specials for the seat rail have a 10mm head (EPC says A 140 990 1122  ).

The rears are normal 6mm dia with 10mm hex head

Naj

[J. Huber]

Hey Mike. I know what you mean about things going into the abyss that is beneath the seat. The first time I finally got under there I expected to find a Guilder or two... (my car was delivered to Holland in 1963!) Good luck with the project. I have heard here of many who firm up the seats with a pool noodle. Yet to try it myself.

Sadly, I too have a seat issue. No not that. I decided to take our new puppy for a spin in the Pagoda. Bad idea. While I was in the post office, he decided to take a bite out of my driver's seat... about 2 by 2 inch tear.  Good thing he's cute. Banned for life but still breathing....

[Garry]

Michael,

The seat noodles work really well.  I cut three pieces to size for each side of the seat as per photo and inserted them in.
  Due to the tight space they sit well in there but I tied off the spring to make sure they do  not slip out.

WHilst my seats had been restored, I wanted them firmer and this did the trick.

[rmmchl]

The front bolt closet to the gearshift is the hardest. I placed the back bolts first with the seat in the forward positon. I did not tighten them though. Then I pulled the seat all the way back to expose access to the front bolts. My front bolts closest to the hump had threads that looked chewed.  Someone had previoisly probably tried to force the tightening of the bolt, without it being lined up properly. I used a ratchet wrench. It only moves about 1/8 th of an each, with each movement of the ratchet, because of the small space between the rail where the bolt sets. I had to hold the wrench on the bolt with one hand and try to tighten with the other. It took quite a while to tighten the one bolt. I started it with my fingers to feel it engage without force.  I bought new bolts from the dealer this summer. Ironically, this was the last thing I did before coming to the PUB this summer. Naj is correct. He nailed it on the size differential. The front  bolts are diffferent. They have a smaller heads so they fit between the rails. They are $10.00 each-------------$20.00 for each seat. I bought new pads from GAHH. My 250sl seat rails and springs were in "as factory" condition. My old horsehair pads where good. We found that  out when the upholsterer took apart the seat. I threw the old ones away anyway.   I was trying to get more comfort and support, just like you are trying to do.To be honest , I don't think the new style foam molded pads helped much. These seats are just not that comfortable. It's the nature of the beast. Looks like Garry had a good idea.

[Via Manci]

The bolts are a lot less expensive in SS at ACE hardware.

[JamesL]

Michael

The bolt near the adjuster - much easier to get in and out with a ratcheting ring spanner. A pain with a socket or regular spanner but easy enough with a ratchet/ring

[mdsalemi]

Here's a REPLY TO ALL.

1)  Via Manci--I'd never use SS bolts here.  SS is way too weak, and I have extensive experience in using SS bolts and hardware from my ownership of a car wash.  While I would not use SS, if I needed to replace these, I'd go with what are called "small pattern" Grade 8 bolts.

2)  Naj--I think I have the correct bolts, as all 4 of them had a 10MM head.  That's the only set of tools I had.  What I did use to get them out was an offset 10MM box wrench.  Slow going.  VERY slow going.  But, the existing bolts are in good condition.  I did not determine or even think of looking if the threads were different front or back.  I placed each bolt back in its spot for the winter so I don't lose them.

3)  Garry, I have heard of the pool noodle work, and thanks for the photos.  I would have thought, however, that an additional length of noodle would be appropriate where the springs curve around at the front of the seat, to either dampen or minimize the compression here right at the front/leading edge of the seats.

4)  Another thing I thought about was either replacing or doubling up the springs to stiffen the seat a bit more.  Anybody try that?

5)  The guy who restored my car was a good body man and a good painter as those of you who have seen my car can agree.  What you didn't see was how good he was on interior things like seats.  So, I suspect he had the seats completely apart and put them back together with any needed repairs, "to stock".  As rmmchl indicates, stock isn't necessarily comfortable, and I add that this was 10 years ago.

I will have the comfort and leisure of time to do this, this winter.

Anybody else, let's hear it!

[69280sl]

I too am going to do some seat work. Does anyone have opinions as to horsehair vs rubber pads? Any recommended sources for the pads?
Thanks

Gus

[JamesL]

Here's a REPLY TO ALL.

3)  Garry, I have heard of the pool noodle work, and thanks for the photos.  I would have thought, however, that an additional length of noodle would be appropriate where the springs curve around at the front of the seat, to either dampen or minimize the compression here right at the front/leading edge of the seats.

As someone built for comfort.... I put a second strip of noodle along the front edge  to reduce the compression at the point where the springs are already closest together. The seats are really comfortable

[Jonny B]

Mike,

Some years back I helped Ted G. put in a couple of extra springs into a seat bottom. We just used hog rings to clamp it to the existing spring. It was a bit of an exercise to get the springs bent into the correct shape, as they are made out of spring steel. I think he sourced them from an upholstery shop, although Buds Benz is selling lengths of it. It sure did make a good difference.

[mdsalemi]

It sure did make a good difference.

Now we are cooking with gas, as they say!  That's the kind of stuff I want to hear.  I think I'll get some of the springs from Bud's, some pool noodles (where the heck will I find them in January??) and just start playing...

[J. Huber]

So does anyone know.... : when the seat is out of the car, can the lower seat be separated from the back part? And, if so, do the MB-Tex seat covers that say Miller's or Bud's sell, slip over the bottom seat or are they somehow stitched on?

thx

[IXLR8]

Hi Mike--

#4  I used 4 inch thick polyester upholstery batting. Cut a section to fit, folded it over in half and stuffed it into the cavity where the zip springs bend. This gives the zip springs more oomph and keeps the original padding shape between the spring and the seat cover.


James--

The seat bottom does separate from the seat back. Take off the hinge covers and the lumbar support adjustment knob. Then flip the seat over and have at the screws and bolts.

The seat covers sold by Bud's etc. is a replacement cover for the present one.



The other Joe

[Raymond]

Michael,  for the bolt under the adjuster handle, I use a 10mm box ratchet.  The wrench I have is narrow enough to fit down between the rail and will turn under the lip of the rail.  You just put this one in first so you can tilt the seat up to keep the head of the bolt at the bottom of the rail.  Then you can swing the wrench back and forth about 30 degrees.  Still tedious but much easier on the fingertips.

For the seat pad, I have tried two things.  First, as a short cut, I had a new boat cushion that is made up of 8, 1/4'in layers of a stiff foam.  (You can feel that through the material.)  I cut it open and used two of the foam sheets between the pad and the springs.  It firmed up the seat quite a bit.  I did do the pool noodel trick around the sides. 

The second thing I did was on the driver's side while trying to build the seat up enough for BK.  I took a memory foam pilates pad and glued three layers together, then trimmed it to match the horse hair pad.  I reinstalled it with the original hog clips.  It's much firmer and does settle to your bum after several miles.  If I do it over, I'll only use two layers. 

[mdsalemi]

Well, just got the seat all back together today.

I made it pretty firm.  The details and some photos will follow soon, either in the wiki or here.

I have to tell you, I did a fair amount of research with a few people in a few places.  It was kind of funny: everyone had a different idea.  All manner of spring reinforcement you can think of.  However, the conclusion of many is the conclusion I reached as well: the pool noodle.

I had bolstered my springs (which were fine, and not broken) with many additions of spring material; each addition stiffened things up a bit.  When I had added about all I could add, I gave it a go--and promptly bottomed out!  Off to get the pool noodles, and voila--like magic.

Bottom line?  Lots of spring augmentation, and the pool noodle, and my seat bottom is now quite firm.  I also added firm foam from the noodles into the seat back to damp the motion of the back springs as well.

The "horsehair" pads had been replaced years ago and were the inorganic, synthetic kind and thus were just fine.