Trim Screws- more questions

[rwh]

I am  trying to get my '64 230sl back together and have some questions regarding trim screws.  I have literally spent hours going over all the posts on trim screws on this great forum and it has been extremely helpful for things like the rocker panels etc.   I have sourced many of the screws for other areas of the car from outfits like SLS.

But now I'm working on the windshield and I want to make sure I'm using the right chrome screws for the A-pillar and windshield top frame chrome.  I need to know the screw specs for the A-pillar chrome and the top chrome piece. I know most are lens type phillips but I need to know length and diameter.

I found Alfred's post and attached picture on the topic  "Proper Interior/Exterior Chrome Trim Screws" very helpful for when I tackle the doors.  But I am looking for a document that does the same thing for other areas of the car such as the windshield A-pillar area.  Several of you have referred to the "Spare Parts" manual but where would I be able to obtain that?  I checked with the Classic Center in Irvine CA and no luck.


By the way the MBCA is hosting an event August 11th at 9:30 in Burlingame, CA that will cover among other things, restoration.  See http://www.mbca.org/event/2012-08-11/take-long-look-mercedes-heritage

Thanks for your help.

[Jordan]

rwh, I finally found the info I hope.  I recently replaced my windshield and had all the chrome off to get redone and replaced the screws at the same time.  The info I have is, the screws to retain the A pillar chrome to the A pillar as well as the top chrome piece are 007982 002227 which are 2.9 x 6.5.  This is the info I received but I believe the screws are actually 2.9 x 9.5.  You should check the length of yours, mine were 9mm long and had pointed tips.  I understand some have flat or blunt tips.  They are inexpensive (5 or 10 cents each) so you could probably get both sizes just so you don't have to reorder.  Mine were stainless.

[66andBlue]

...  Several of you have referred to the "Spare Parts" manual but where would I be able to obtain that?  I checked with the Classic Center in Irvine CA and no luck.

If you look here {http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Documents/SparePartsList} you will see (almost) all Mercedes issued spare parts list that are useful for our cars. For your 230SL you should search for list "10 126", which is Edition "C".  Do NOT buy any parts catalogs that came with the car because they do not have any part numbers, only part diagrams.
These books are rare and some sellers have no quarrels listing them for $550! See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/250901502554

Be prepared that even after you are the proud owner of such a spare parts list that you'll still have to spend lost of time finding the exact details.
For example, the chrome trim piece on the right A-pillar is p/n 113 725 04 65. The list shows that you need also 2 rubber pads p/n 113 725 02 97 (but it does not tell you the dimensions of the piece) and 8 screws p/n 007982 003215.
The "Survey of Standard Parts" indicates that DIN 7982 =  countersunk sheet metal screw with cross-type slot but doesn't tell us what finish coarse or fine thread and dimensions. That information is indicated by "003215" and for this you need a translator or "Schluessel-Liste". I only have number 7 and that one does not include "003215". So I cannot tell you what the dimensions are, whether it is chromed, blunt or sharp.

But I hope you now understand why it is almost impossible getting the correct parts for old cars when you call a dealer or even the Classic Center. Unless you get Tom Hansen on the phone there, he would know where to look.  The other person who has the correct Schluessel-Liste to identify "003215" is Dave Gallon.  But I doubt that he can spend 30 minutes finding and verifying the information just to sell 8 screws.

[tel76]

In parts list 10202  Edition C the part #for the lhs chrome is 113 688 01 41 and the rhs is 113 688 02 41. The screws to hold them in position is 007981 003226
the pads are lhs 113 725 01 97     rhs 113 725 02 97.
If you order screws from MB you will find that they are not always identical, a lot of rationisation is being done.

[66andBlue]

Perfect!
Now we have three different part numbers for the screws that rwh is looking for, Jordan's, mine, and tel76's. This is a perfect example of why I am somewhat reluctant providing part numbers. It is not always clear which part is meant in many inquiries.
rwh wrote: I need to know the screw specs for the A-pillar chrome
Problem is, which chrome piece?
My p/n is for the chrome trim on the A-pillar that holds the rubber seal in Group 72, item 80 in the picture.
Tel76 believes it is the outside chrome on the A-pillar in Group 68, item 47 in the picture.
So rwh, which one is it?

[zoegrlh]

You will be surprised what you will fine at your local ACE hardware store.  I have picked up several screws in stainless steel/phillips that I could not find in parts catalog.  I just take my screws with me to the store, and if I need it blunt, I put it to a grinder.
Bob

[tel76]

Hello Alfred,
If you read the second paragraph he specifically says the  A post chrome and the piece across the top rail.

[66andBlue]

You will be surprised what you will fine at your local ACE hardware store.  ....

Bob,
you are very lucky if you have an ACE store that carries metric sheet metal screws. Keep it in business!
We had a huge one in Kansas City that had very few sizes and nothing in stainless steel. The ACE store here in SoCal have none, stainless or not.

[mbzse]

.../... sheet metal screws. .../... in stainless steel

Just a word of caution here, stainless material together with aluminium, is prone to corrosion.
http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=89
/Hans in Sweden

[rwh]

Thanks, all, for the information you've supplied.  I've now attached the A-pillar piece, the one that "wraps" the A-pillar (item 47 in Alfred's picture - with 2.9x7mm screws as suggested by Jordan.   That seems to work - I think (read on). Thank you, Alfred, for the pictures-- very useful.

To Eric's point of Mercedes rationalizing their parts -- that is true.  I inquired of the Classic Center on 7982 003215 (I didn't have the part number - this is what they came back with - same as what Alfred listed).  Now they are offering  a $5 TORX replacement screw (to attach #80 to the A-pillar).  Granted -- the weatherstripping that slides into the channel covers it but I just can't do that.

Related to that, when attaching trim piece #80 (Alfred's picture), the lens-head screws I used to attach the A-pillar chrome piece (#47) sit proud of the piece and I'm wondering if they should actually be flat head screws to allow for a flush fit of the weather stripping channel.
 
There is an outift here in Northern California, Global Metrics, in Belmont, (google it for contact info -- no website) that carries nothing but metric fasteners.  They have silver, chromated and stainless.  They can supply you with what you need but they only work off of measurements and type of head etc.  Lots of restorers seem to use them.

[66andBlue]

Hello R.
Thanks for the info on Global Metrics, it is always good to have more supply options.
Now to the screws.
tel68 wrote chrome trim around the A-pillar - # 47 in Group 68 - needs screw "007981 003226".
DIN7981 is a Phillips pan head sheet metal screw. "003226" = 3.5 x 13mm, fine thread, iridescent polished finish.
Appears to me that Jordan's screw is too thin and too short for that purpose.  

The screws for #80 in Group 72 is a DIN 7982 as I wrote before and that one is indeed a flat head countersunk Phillips. Take a look again at the description in my first reply (1st attachment). So it is no surprise that the pan head screw sticks out.  I am still working to find out what dimensions it has - might take a few days.

[Jordan]

Alfred, just to let you know the numbers and screws I used for my A pillar chrome (as well as the rest) were from Dave Gallon.  He provided the part numbers/sizes and the screws and they worked perfectly.

[66andBlue]

Hi Jordan,
yours may well be the correct screws.
I have simply provided the specs on the "007981 003226" part number that tel86 indicated as being necessary for the trim piece p/n 113 688 01 41 (#47 in Group 68).
Not sure were tel86 found it in Group 68 for the 230SL since he used a parts list (10202) for the 250SL/280SL. And even in that list there is a footnote (3)  for "007981 003226" indicating that it was only used on some cars but not all of them.
It just shows again that identifying the correct parts is not a trivial business.