Headlight "notches"

[twistedtree]

I've seen so many variations of the headlight "notches" that I don't know what's real and what's memorex.  It would be great to see some pictures of the notches on cars that are 100% known to be original in that area.  Is there really a lot of variation in the factory treatment of that area, or is all the variation in how body shops re-create something they have never seen before?

Can anyone take some good, close up pictures?

[49er]

 I can guarantee this is 100% original:-)

John

[mbzse]

I've seen so many variations of the headlight "notches" that I don't know what's real and what's memorex.../..

Please note, the crease (notch) was not pressed into the metal even at the time when the cars were being produced. The notch was shaped, with tin, by workers right there on the assembly line. Thus, there are slight variations in shape and length of the creases (notches), depending on which worker performed the task. As mentioned before, the general idea is to match the knick in the headlight surround, as well as to match the crease on the outside of the fender.
/Hans in Sweden

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[twistedtree]

Thanks, this is very helpful.  It would be great to get a few more pictures of original cars so we can see some of the variation.

Anyone else have pictures?

[KevinC]

Unlike John, I am not certain that these are original but have no reason to believe that they aren't.

Kevin

[twistedtree]

This is great.  Keep 'em coming.  Maybe I'll get motivated and add all this to the Wiki.

[lurtch]

A special Thank You to Hans for explaining the origination of those "notches".

I have been puzzling over them since I got my car in back in 2004.

Chock up yet one more reason to love the uniqueness and the peculiarities or our Pagodas!

Larry in CA

[dsg]

Thank you for the informative pictures, John and Kevin. Having them on hand will certainly help me in my search for a car.

[mdsalemi]

Dennis,

There was a time when our cars were merely Mercedes roadsters/coupes and not treated by many with the kind of loving care they often receive today. That being said, there are some very fine cars out there that had resprays and or body work done on them over the years, w/o the notches being replaced. Today we look upon them as an indicator of originality, but there are probably some original fenders (look for spotwelds in the engine bay) that during a repaint, some body guy just ground off.  Without the knowledge, and certainly without the headlights in place, it would be an easy thing to overlook.  Don't dismiss a car solely for that reason, but keep them as just one more mark of attention to detail or originality.

[Garry]

And dont rely on the fender spot welds as an indicator of originality either as I have just seen a car at the Euro Event with new fenders that had all spot welds in place especally done to match the originals.

So there is no guarentee that a car is original unless you are the original owner

[dsg]

Michael and Garry, thanks for the sensible advice on this matter. I have wanted one of these cars since I was a boy, so I tend to be more emotional than rational when I look at one. (Every car I see is the one I want to buy!) I am pleased that KevinC has been helping me with my search; his input has more than once prevented me from making a serious mistake.    (My apologies for going a bit off topic here.)

[Tomnistuff]

Regarding originality - A story told by the vintage Ferrari guys is about the ORIGINAL toolkit hammer whose cracked handle was replaced many years ago during a first restoration and whose rusted and dented head was replaced a few years later during a second restoration.  

If it is identical to the original and can`t be shown to be different, what difference does it make?  I just put the headlight notches back in mine after at least 25 year`s absence.  I used photos of original notches as a guide, I think!  Should I be docked during judging, assuming I ever wanted it to be judged, which I don`t?

I'm restoring mine, but I'm not going to send off to Germany for air to put in the tires.

Tom Kizer`
"A purist, but not a masochist, and trying to determine where the dividing line is!"

PS: At the Ferrari banquets, they always yell, in unison, "These cars are meant to be DRIVEN!", just after they hand out the best in show prize to the guy who trailered his to the show after a 100 point restoration.

[gerster]

You're right Tom.

[KevinC]

Seems that this thread has taken on a life of its own...as some seem to do from time to time. It started with Peter asking for pictures of headlight notches. So the group understands, I've been coaching Dennis in his search to a degree not suggesting "Buy a car if it has/dosent have "X"; dont buy a car if it has/doesnt have "Y"" but instead by 1) gleening constructive information from these forums 2) use photos of nicely presented examples, like those on Brian Peters' site as references and lastly 3) put together a checklist for each specific car you look at, taking into account what may be examples of well-cared for /maintained vehicles vs those maintained at the corner Mobil station. (not picking on Mobil stations, just using an example). From there, review your checklists and lean toward the best most potentially original car you can afford. In all LIKELIHOOD it will end up being the best car for you. In the end, I dont want anyone to think that I was suggesting the purchase of a car should be based solely on headlight notches. In fact, while these are on "the list" they are not near the top.

[twistedtree]

For what it's worth, I asked the questions for two reasons.  First, is to identify correct versus incorrect notches.  The second is to guide my restorations to make them correct.

Notice that I said "correct", not "original".  Truly original cars are a wonderful thing, but 99% of us don't have one and never will.  A correctly restored car is the next best thing adn the best most of us can strive for.

[49er]

I never thought of myself as being part of the "1 percent" :-)

John

[twistedtree]

I never thought of myself as being part of the "1 percent" :-)

John

Oh, I think you are.  Are there other completely untouched, totally original cars represented here?  Maybe one or two, if even that?

[mdsalemi]

And dont rely on the fender spot welds as an indicator of originality either as I have just seen a car at the Euro Event with new fenders that had all spot welds in place especally done to match the originals.

So there is no guarentee that a car is original unless you are the original owner

I've heard of that.  I also saw once (Starfest 2004, Ohio), a car with an [ersatz] "original" battery, which was a complete fabrication, Hollywood special effects style.  The restorer showed the car and laughed very hard when he fooled the judges.

[Jkalplus1]

My notches are more like Kevin's than John's sharp ones. 
Mike:  I read your post about the guy with the fabricated battery.  I am trying to "fabricate" one as well for fun, not because I want to get something I don't deserve, but to get the original look.  I'd buy a new repro if available, but I don't think they make it for our car, I could not find any.  I know getting a MB battery will not get me points deduction, but am wondering if anyone here ever disguised a battery to look like an original?  It does not seem too onerous if one is handy with epozy, fiberglass and such?  Am I on crack?

[gugel]

[I'm] wondering if anyone here ever disguised a battery to look like an original?  It does not seem too onerous if one is handy with epozy, fiberglass and such? 

Tom Colitt (on this list) had several batteries built in Germany to be exactly like the original one.  They were expensive, but then so are the new Mercedes batteries for the Pagoda.

[Jkalplus1]

Thanks, I wrote him!