Author Topic: Oddball setup  (Read 3220 times)

Joe

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Oddball setup
« on: December 28, 2012, 18:00:18 »
My 230SL has a 280SL engine. With Benz Dr's help, I learned the distributor (0231 116 061) is a vacuum-retard, but the throttle body is a vacuum-advance. I'm not sure where the timing is set, but assume it is set for the distributor (VR).
Dan thinks the 061 is similar enough to the 062 distributor.
The car runs fine, I think, but is hard to start when hot.
Now the odd thing: The car gets a regular 24 mpg on the highway!
If I replace the throttle body with a vacuum-retard unit, and be sure the timing is set for a vacuum retard setting, will I lose my good mileage?
Joe
Colorado Springs

thelews

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Re: Oddball setup
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 18:30:12 »
Car runs fine, gets good mileage, better than most, why are you messing with it?
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Benz Dr.

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Re: Oddball setup
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 19:28:11 »
Good question John, I'll try to answer some of these things.

 Joe, I see where you asked about a VR throttle body but that's not what you need if you have a car with vacuum switch gear. This system uses a constant vacuum throttle body to make it work properly. It would work with a VR throttle body but not as well as it's supposed to.

Vacuum Advance:
system has no vacuum applied while engine is at idle and vacuum will increase as RPM climbs. System needs about 6 - 8 inches of vacuum to move vacuum cell to full position. Distributor may loose some timing advance at WOT. All vacuum advance is gone at idle or when coasting down hill when foot is off accelerator.

Vacuum retard:
constant vacuum signal at dle. As RPM's increase, vacuum signal decreases. A spring inside of the vacuum cell provides the advance movement. Since vacuum is usually high at idle, this system provides a constant zero positio for ingnition timing. Timing is not affected by WOT yet still returns to zero while coasting with no throttle pressure. Not affected by low manifold vacuum as much as vacuum adance systems.

Constant vacuum system:
throttle body maintains a constant vacuum signal that is switched off via a vacuum switch over valve at about 2,200 RPM. System is similar to VR but the vacuum movement is programed to happen all at once. The CV distributor is designed to have a smaller mechanmical movement and a larger vacuum movement than a 051 VR unit. The 061 and 062 units will move the timiing below the normal 8 degrees BTDC at idle to 4 degrees ATDC at idle. This is supposed to reduce NOX somewhat. The VR and CV systems will both give you about 38 degrees of total advance - they just do it in different ways.

The CV distributors will mechanicly advance up to about 2,200 RPM, then a speed sensor will trigger the switch over valve to close and the total lack of vacuum will caus the distributor to advance all at one time up to its full amount.
This system also employs two thermo switches that over ride the switch gear. A switch in the engine block remains closed until it reaches about 65C and then it will open so that vacuum is restored and the timing will move to retard. This feature helps the cold engine warm up faster. A second switch in the thermostat housing closes at 100C which causes the distributor to advance ( no vacuum signal) which will increase idle speed with the idea of cooling a hot engine. My thoughts on this idea is that it's probably too late to do much good on a hot day once the engine is at, or over, 100C. A 95C switch would probably be more usefull to get the temperature down before it gets too hot. I`m not sure if this switch is availble but I think it would be a better choice.


A VR throttle body could work on a 061 or 062 distributor but the advance curve would be altered significantly.     

   
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

w113dude

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Re: Oddball setup
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 21:24:26 »
Now the odd thing: The car gets a regular 24 mpg on the highway!

Wow a 280 engine getting 24 MPG. I would take this any day! best I ever get in ideal condition is 20 MPG. As they say "don't mess up a good thing"

Benz Dr.

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Re: Oddball setup
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 05:16:33 »
I disagree somewhat. That is exceptional mileage but there could be damage caused to the pistons by having incorrect ignition timing. I'd rather have things right than have things wrong with long term costs later down the road.
Odds are the mileage will remain the same or similar after this issue is sorted out. 
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC